DR DAWSON CHURCH — BEST SELLING AUTHOR OF "MIND TO MATTER "AND EFT EXPERT

Dr. Dawson Church. How are you? May I call you Dawson? Let's start there. By all means, please do. Good. Okay. So I've been looking so forward to this for a long time now. Let me give you a little bit of a background. But while I was doing some research, etc., etc., I saw a little something that mentioned that decided, you know, from where you currently live, there is some form of a connection with South Africa, because you were born in Cape Town, if I'm not mistaken. I was, indeed, my parents were missionaries. And so we spent about six months in various missionary stations. And they happened to be in Cape Town for a while when I was born. So I was born there. And then when I was four years old, we went back to England. So it wasn't a long time, but it was it was it was a little while. And we went back actually to South Africa several other times, as well as all the surrounding countries as well. So I got a really good sense of that whole whole part of the world. Wonderful stuff. You've been interviewed on radio before in South Africa, or are we making history this evening?

Well, I never thought about it that way, David. I actually I never had come to think of it. Well, there we go. Then I'm going to claim this as a scoop. I was always told if anything good happens within a 30 kilometer radius, claim it as your own. Now, Dawson, you are an award winning author. You've got two best selling books. I started on the on the on the back end of that, because I started first off with Mind to Matter. But your first book was the Genie in Your Genes. And it was it's an amazing book. We're going to talk a little bit about it. But then the one that I read first was Mind to Matter, which basically looks at the science of peak mental health states. You've done many, many things. You're also the the editor of something called Energy Psychology Theory Research and Treatment. You're very involved with EFT universe. It's one of the biggest as far as I can make out the biggest. What do we call it? Alternative medicine sites on the Internet. EFT, of course, stands for emotional freedom technique. So this is what you've done. But but take us back a little bit and talk to me about Dawson Church. I mean, how did you start off wanting to get into this kind of stuff? Because this isn't this.

This isn't something you just sort of decide one morning over coffee, surely.

David, I decided because I was miserable. And so when I was a teenager, when I was in my 20s, I actually enjoyed the spiritual community and was living in an ashram and meditating and learning energy healing because I was so depressed, so anxious. I now realize I PTSD from my my early childhood years. And I wanted to fix myself. I went into psychology initially, because I wanted to find some way of getting through my my just constant misery. And bit by bit, I did actually succeed in doing that. But it took years. I mean, took me like from the age of 15 to the age of 45, doing all kinds of different techniques like crystal therapy and family dynamic therapy and various kinds of coaching and and and having incremental progress on my my problems. But when I discovered meditation in a really serious way at the age of 45, and then EFT a year or two later, I suddenly found that problems that took me the years to make progress on with conventional therapies, I was making progress in just hours with energy therapies. And I became really committed after a while to see these therapies widespread and getting into lots of people. So the motivation for me really was was my own issues initially. And then now that I'm I'm spreading them, I'm researching them, I'm writing about them is sharing that with people because I think of all the people who are suffering like I was, who don't know about these therapies, it really motivates me to get them to those people. Because I know that suffering can so easily so quickly be alleviated. So that's kind of the trajectory of what I've done. Now, the interesting thing is in and I've mentioned emotional freedom technique or EFT to a couple of people that I know and they looked at me and they went, hmm, airy fairy hocus pocus. And yet, you've done you've done the research and you've got some some kind of massive amount of success stories. Yeah, I love that that term, airy fairy hocus pocus. And it really all of alternative medicine, energy medicine sounds so ephemeral, like energy, what is that? And how does energy medicine help you? I mean, if I hand you a pill, if I if I propose a surgery to you, that's that's real medicine. But if I talk about energy, it sounds so well, as you say, hocus pocus. So what initially began to happen when I began to do research about 20 years ago in these therapies, what we were finding was that the effects on symptoms like depression, like PTSD, symptoms like flashbacks and nightmares on physical pain, that these symptoms were changing extremely quickly. And there are now over 100 clinical trials of EFT. They show, for example, an average reduction in pain of about two thirds in about half an hour. They show an average reduction in anxiety of more more than half in just a day or two. Same thing with depression, PTSD, flashbacks, nightmares, intrusive thoughts, that EFT and energy therapies generally are able to alleviate these problems and alleviate them really quickly, not slowly like the older therapies did. So there's a lot of research showing that that these these therapies work. Explain to us for those who may not have heard of EFT before. Can you explain it?

Can you explain the process of it? Because maybe some people in South Africa, maybe they may be more familiar with the term tapping. Yes. And it's called tapping because you have to use this fingertip tapping on acupuncture meridians and acupuncture points. So you just take your fingertips in one hand and you tap on several of the points that an acupuncturist would do, would use if he or she was putting needles in your body. And so you're simply using your fingertips like an acupuncture needle. And acupressure like this has been practiced for, you know, going back, Qigong's been doing this for at least 2000 years, probably many, many millennia before that. So EFT uses the this process of tapping on acupuncture points. And research shows that when you think of a problem, when you think of a core belief you have about the world that's negative, when you reflect on a negative childhood event, when you are processing a future fear or present day fear, and you tap, then the degree of fear rapidly diminishes. And in fact, when we put people in MRIs, and we measure their brain waves, we're actually looking at what's going on inside the brain. When people are fearful, the whole emotional part of the brain lights up. It's in the very center of the brain, it's the limbic system. And that midbrain limbic system, when you're stressed, when you're afraid, when you're, when you're resentful, when you're angry, any kind of strong negative emotion, that negative, that part of the brain, that limbic system becomes highly active. When you activate that system, though, and you then use acupuncture or acupressure, that triggering, that emotional response in the brain rapidly goes dark. So now, you still remember the bad stuff, I mean, the bad doesn't change the history of the past or the fact of your situation, but you no longer have this big emotional tag. So for example, when we are doing this with war veterans, or refugees, they they still remember the horrors of war, and the people who died and the body, the bodies and all the all the miserable things that happen to them. But they no longer have this huge overwhelming emotional response to them, because that that part of the brain is is shut down. And tapping does this very, very quickly. It's like, I think of it as stroking a dog. If you tell it, it can explain to a dog, don't, you shouldn't be running after cars and barking. But that explanation just has no resonance with the dog. But if you touch the dog, if you if you just sue the dog physically, the dog gets that it's safe, and that the behavior isn't necessary. So it's sending a signal to that middle part of the brain. And it's a physical soothing signal. It's not an intellectual one. So it's not what you say. That's talk therapy, if he's not talk therapy, if he's touch therapy, and the brain prioritizes touch, if somebody puts their arm around you and and comforts you that way, it's usually far more effective than an explanation of why you shouldn't be crying that so if he's using these somatic cues, these somatic physical kinesthetic signals of calming. And again, research shows that rapidly shuts down that emotional part of the brain. That is absolutely fascinating. Because if I think particularly, you know, considering if we think about Africa, the rather turbulent history in Africa, South Africa in particular, I'm thinking there are going to be many, many people who could benefit from something like tapping. And from what I understand, and the research I've done, this is not something that you necessarily always have to go to a therapist for, you can actually learn the technique and perform it on yourself. Am I correct? Often just the very first time someone uses tapping, David, they feel the difference. So if you have a fear, if you have a memory, if you have a current situation that's stressing you out, the very first time I I did it myself, I was in the process of doing a selling a piece of property, and it was falling on a vest grow, I was really stressed about that. And I was amazed with just tapping on myself, my anxiety dropped by about a half. So yeah, you can do it in yourself. And you'll usually feel the effects really quickly.

But if you're working on a long term issue, if for example, you have a string of failed relationships or a relationship that isn't hasn't done well for many, many, many years, if you're working on issues like autoimmune diseases, or weight loss, or money problems, something where you have a persistent issue in your life, it's better to work with a practitioner, because they have a lot of experience, they can get you where you want to want to go a lot faster than you stumbling around trying to figure it out for yourself. So for simple things, yeah, do it yourself. But for complex issues or long standing issues, you probably have a blind spot and already help you to work with a therapist or a coach. Okay, that's that's, it makes a lot of sense that now, where would we go about we living in South Africa, where would we go about finding an EFT? I guess they called EFT practitioners. You know, just this week, David, we've opened up a virtual program, a virtual platform that allows people to tap with a certified practitioner, 24 seven. And so we have our practitioners going on on this on this platform, they make themselves available. And so these are all are certified people have been thoroughly trained, and are recertified every couple of years. And so so now, this is really new, we've been working on this for the last three and a half years. But now you can go to our website, EFT universe, or directly to the platforms called the tapping place, tapping place.com, and tap with a practitioner live in real time, and either do a 10 minute session or 20 minute session, or half hour session if you need that long, often you get far enough long in 10 minutes to where it's all you need. So we've structured the tapping place that way. But it's the people on our website who those who've been trained and certified, and gone through a really rigorous process that you want to want to work with because they know what they're doing.

Fantastic stuff. Now, obviously, I mean, you're not doing this this tapping place, it's a paid service. So we would we would pay for a session. It's paid service, if you want to just try it yourself for free, you can go to EFT universe and download our free mini manual. There is also a free online course there. So there are about 5000 free web pages on the universe. And then again, for more complex things, work with a practitioner. So yeah, all the basics are available for free. I think that's absolutely fantastic. We are chatting to my special guest, and I've been so looking forward to chatting to him, Dr. Dawson Church. And we're going to get on to the books that he's written, we're going to talk about the genie in your genes, and his latest offering as well, the one that well, I enjoyed both of them tremendously. But mind to matter for me was just phenomenal. When we come back, we'll be continuing our chat with Dr. Dawson Church. Don't go anywhere. Monday evening, my special guest on the line, Dr. Dawson Church. You've done so many things, Dawson, that it's going to take us more than just this the short time that we have to talk about it. But let's move on to your books, because the first book that I was aware of you writing was something called genie in your genes.

And people are talking about that book as a breakthrough, in terms of understanding the link between our emotions and genetics, and you hear all sorts of terms thrown around there, then you followed it up just because that wasn't enough with something called mind to matter. So should we start with genie in your genes? That was the one you wrote first. Can you give us a synopsis of that? That book was a real revelation to me, David, because I yet realize that the whole field of epigenetics was remarkable. And science really regards it as such, because we began to realize with the very first experiments in epigenetics, that certain factors were able to turn genes on and off from outside the cell outside the body. One of the very early studies used diet, and they were working with mice, and they were working with mice who have a particular catalog of diseases like obesity and cancer and so on. And they found that by changing just one gene, the agouti gene, that these mice, they doubled their lifespan by making an epigenetic change to one gene doing it with diet. So we have to realize that, whoa, if you can turn genes on and off epigenetically from outside the cell with things like diet, and there are many other things that do it as well, that that's a powerful effect on health and longevity. But I was not interested in thing in mechanical interventions like that. What I was really interested in was emotions and spirituality. If a person meditates, what happens to their genes? And if a person taps, and if they use energy therapies, if they do Reiki, and they they do to Joe Ray, and they shift their emotions, they they clean up their inner spiritual life, what happens to their genes? And so geninear genes was making this argument based on the available evidence in 2004 2005, that when you shift your consciousness, it shifts your genes. Now, that was a really big idea for 2005. And there wasn't a lot of experimental evidence that I showed in the first edition of the book, that there was some evidence that suggested this is possible. In 2013, when I did the the the the last edition of the book, there were hundreds of studies showing that emotion, positive emotion effects, gene expression, negative emotion effects, gene expression, meditation effects, gene expression, acupuncture effects, gene expression, all of these things that again, we thought were woo woo 10 20 years ago, were affecting gene expression. In one study, for example, the researchers looked at gene expression before and after one hour of EFT one EFT session, lasting an hour, and they found that 72 genes changed in their expression, they were up, they were dialed up, up regulated by just one hour of EFT. So we're not realizing that I mentioned earlier in the previous segment, how EFT affects mood, how EFT affects your psychological outlook, in terms of of anxiety, depression, PTSD. But when your mood changes, when your emotions change, this sends all of these epigenetic signals to your cells, and your gene expression changes. And not just by a little bit, several genes can change many genes can change. And that one study 72 genes were changed by a single hour of a really effective treatment. So we're now beginning to realize that are, and the gene in your genes, my book talks about this a lot. We now realize that if you de stress yourself, if you dial down your stress, you're dialing down all of these hormones like cortisol, you're dialing up all these positive hormones like oxytocin and DHEA. And you're having a radically different series of biochemical events happening inside your body, just on the basis of your emotions, your spiritual life, your thoughts, your feelings. So that's the part of epigenetics that that fascinates me how we can do this with just our awareness, and that the changes in our bodies aren't minor, they're massive, they're pervasive, they're throughout our entire physiology. So that's really the exciting thing to me is that when you change your mind, change your awareness, change your consciousness, you are literally turning off numbers of important genes in all your cells. Now, the amazing thing about this is a lot of the stuff is being touted as groundbreaking, revolutionary, etc, etc, etc. And from a scientific perspective, certainly it is, but from a spiritual perspective, these are things that we've been told before.

You know, think about acupuncture points, I take a little device around with me when I travel and do live workshops called the galvanometer. And I show people an ancient 2000 year old acupuncture chart that uses this little device, which actually measures the electrical charge on your skin, just a mechanical device that measures that. And I run it over people's skin. And whenever there's an acupuncture point, the little device starts to be make sound, and it has a light that flashes. And so you can trace exactly where those acupuncture points are. And they turn out to be on those points shown in 2000 year old parchment scrolls from China. So how do they know, you know, nowadays, I have this elaborate scientific instrument, it can measure these energy flows in the body. But they were using these flows for healing thousands of years ago, before we had galvanometers before we had these diagnostic equipment packages. And so it's that that's the really amazing thing to me, we're rediscovering. And this, this technology is validating this ancient knowledge of how we heal, change your energy, change your life. So spirituality, all of these, what we thought were esoteric practices, turn out to be having enormous effects.

One study I did, for example, of a meditation technique I teach called eco meditation, which I talked about in the book, we had people doing meditation and tapping for a week at a retreat center. And from the beginning to the end of that week, their baseline for their main stress hormone cortisol, their cortisol dropped by an average of 37% in a week. And this is just like medically impossible that cortisol can fluctuate that much in just one week, but it did. And their immune system function, which we measured using another molecule, an antibody called immunoglobulin, we measure their immunoglobulins, and their immunoglobulins in one week, went up by an average of 113%, a doubling of immune function in just a single week of using energy therapies. So the cool energy that they're having the dramatic effects on the physiology of our bodies, the they may be they may seem woman ephemeral, but the effects they're having on our cells are anything but they're contributing to our health, our longevity, and the turning genes on the turning genes off. Well, this is this again, and it's amazing to me because, you know, when you talk spirituality, you know, people often used to refer to the power of prayer to the power of belief in some of the ancient traditions, meditation was was a massive, massive thing. When you go back to the to the Chinese again with the qigong, all of these things were seen as very hocus pocus a little while ago, suddenly, they are becoming very, very mainstream. And the stories and the anecdotes of people that have experienced this and have experienced healing is really quite amazing.

And some of the healings are dramatic. I'll give you an example of one that's very personal to me, because it was a friend of mine. And she called me and emailed me in a panic in March of 2017, before mind matter was published. And she said that for metastasized breast cancer, she had a five centimeter tumor on the top of her right breast, and that's a very large tumor. And they the doctors then looked for signs of metastasis. And they found that all of the lymph nodes under her right arm were swollen and inflamed with cancer cells. Also, there were three spots of inflammation on her right lung. So it looked as though through her lymph nodes, her lymph glands, that cancer was spreading throughout her body. And she was she also had a gene test and said, Dawson, I, I've been I've had this gene test, and they've told me that I've ate defective genes, some of those predispose me to breast cancer. So she was so, so panicked and so fearful. But she decided to use only energy therapies that she actually turned down conventional therapy, at least in the short term, she said, before I go and have surgery, or even get a biopsy, I want to really see what I can do with my energy field. So she said she had eight defective genes, I told her, Beth, there are 24,000 genes in every cell of your body. And that means of those 24,000 genes, 23,992 are just fine. Let's work with those. And so we began to do recommend to do positive energy work, she got positive energy therapies, she did a lot of qigong, we did some surrogate EFT tapping with her, she also did everything she could with her lifestyle to change her situation. So she, she was meditating regularly, she did qigong every day, she cleaned up her diet, she turned off all the alerts on her cell phone, she just cut off social connections, people in her life, who weren't positive, who weren't kind, who weren't compassionate. And she gave herself a radical lifestyle turnover like in days. And so she got the diagnosis in March. And this is, I mean, when I say this, David, I'm like the hairs are standing up on the back of my my arms. It's so intense to say this.

But eight weeks later, she went back into this, this famous cancer clinic where she was being treated, and will not be treated father went back there two months later. And all of the lymph nodes under her right arm that were clear, completely normal. And the tumor had shrunk from five centimeters to 1.4 centimeters in diameter. So that's the two thirds shrinkage. And that's in just eight weeks, this wasn't six months or 10 years, this was like, this was like just in a few weeks. Later on, she had blood tests, and they showed she had not a trace of cancer markers in her body. So it is powerful to use energy. It's not like energy is just this thing that makes you feel good, which it does do. But using energy therapies like EFT, like meditation, like qigong can produce radical improvements in your physiology. And that's why I really recommend people use these things. And I'm not saying that you'll never use a prescription. Like, I you know, I have some physical things I've watched, like my blood pressure, but I use natural therapies. And then if I need to, I'll go take a pill. But that's like the the thing I'll use my third line of defense or fourth line of defense, certainly not the first thing I'll do, I'll always find a natural remedy. And there are natural remedies for arthritis, and for autoimmune diseases, like one clinical trial of five myalgia, we found that two thirds of people with five myalgia improved with EFT. One third of them were totally cured by EFT.

And if you go on the website of the Mayo Clinic, a big famous medical center here in the US, it says right on the front page of the five myalgia listing, five myalgia is an incurable disease. And it is to modern medicine, that to energy medicine, again, we find many cases of five myalgia are either totally cured, or at least the symptoms improve. So there are many bests in the world. There are many people who are using these these natural methods using energy therapies, change your energy, and your whole perspective starts to shift. Well, I gotta, I gotta tell you, I mean, for me personally, and this is part of why I'm interested in in this field, is I've studied Reiki, I've got I've gotten my Reiki master, but I was diagnosed a couple of years ago with type two diabetes and a lot of neuropathy in my feet. So the pain was unbelievable. And literally using some of these techniques, it's not gone by any stretch of the imagination yet. But it is certainly a whole lot more manageable than what it was. I mean, it was quite debilitating initially. Now, you know, I get through a day and I can do my things. And I'm quite happy. And the change literally came in for me, the major one is coming in terms of doing the qigong and and and the meditations. Yeah, I'm so glad you found those things. You're applying them to that neuropathy, because we can repair so much of our bodies. And our bodies are healing machines and mind to matter. The whole first half of mind to matter is all about people using energy and physical healing. And there are so many healing stories, there's miracles of people's physical healing. And so the the possibilities are endless. And as you say, it's not perfect. There's no panacea. In fact, in another book, earlier book of mindful soul medicine, I say if any practitioner tells you that his or her method is a panacea that can can fix everything or that fixes every case, runaway because that is just not not true of any any therapy. But these therapies are incredibly effective. And so like just for example, I really watch inflammation in my body, but I use natural methods and most of the time they work every once in a while every few few months or years, I'll need something medical as well. But but natural methods are just just just amazing.

There's one whole part of our site where we our website, if universe where we have we record stories of people who've used EFT for physical injuries in like using for first aid. So they've been stunned by a wasp or hornet. They have had a spider bite or a snake bite, they have burned themselves on a hot stove or on a hot pan. They cut themselves. They've sprained an ankle and they use EFT. And there are the stories on that part of the website are just astounding. People describe swelling going away. One doctor had a patient who he gave a flu shot to. And the next day the patient came in, and he had a lump the size of half a boiled egg at his arm where the flu shot had been administered. He had a big allergic reaction to the flu shot. And the doctor began to tap on him. He said in five minutes, the lump just went away. And just amazing how effective it can be. So again, it's not that you'll never need a flu shot or you'll never need aspirin. You'll never need to talk to your doctor, but you want to make sure you don't neglect the role of energy, which is so powerful in healing. So I'm so glad you are using those techniques. Wonderful. Well, we've got a couple of questions in. So let's help with, well, let's ask those questions of you first. Then we'll take a break, come back, and I want to talk a little bit more about your book and the mind to matter specifically going to a little more depth there. Then we'll find out if you've got anything else planned. But questions first. Somebody says, thanks for the show, finding it interesting. I have my own virtual reality set up at home. Can I log in from there and get treatment from the comfort of my own home? I don't think you need virtual reality. You can just sit in front of your monitor. We're talking now, if somebody wants to get into that tappingplace.com website. Dawson, is that correct? You don't need any fancy equipment. You just sit in front of your computer monitor. Yeah, computer monitor. And it works with smartphones, works with tablets. So any of the above. Okay, so there we go. That's that one. Somebody else has just asked, is there a way that we can look at getting a recognized tapping certification in South Africa?

Is there such a thing? Do we have a body in South Africa? Do we have a way of learning EFT here?

Yes and no. We have an energy psychology certification that is mostly virtual, but you still have to go to one class and you have to get one four-day class live. And so we've had several people from different parts of Africa take those classes and they're usually in Europe or in the Far East, but usually in Europe. So unfortunately, we don't have any of those in South Africa yet. If someone that wants to organize one, we'll happily send a trainer out there to do it. But usually people have to travel either to the US or to Europe to do those live classes. You know, the question is going to arise sooner rather than later about, are we going to be expecting Dawson Church in South Africa? But we won't get there just yet. Next question in, could tapping or EFT be an effective treatment for Othello syndrome? Now I'm afraid I have no idea what Othello syndrome is. Neither do I. Somebody else said... Well, what I would say, David, is I'm not a doctor, I'm a coach, so I can't give medical advice. What I would say though is that EFT works well, super well for some things and marginally for other things because what it works on is the stress component of everything. So if, for example, you're using it for an autoimmune disease, then it's going to take care of whatever part of that autoimmune disease is linked to stress.

And there are many different parts of our experience linked to stress. For example, people might think, well, it's just a genetic disease. It could be a strongly genetically inherited disease. Well, maybe it is, but are you afraid because you have that gene? Well, that's stress. Are you angry at your doctors? Are you angry at your body? Are you angry at God? Are you angry at the universe? That's stress. Are you afraid you won't heal? That's stress. And so when we work with people and tap with them on all those aspects of the problem, the stress component of it goes down. So if there's a stress component and there is almost every disease and that goes away, then the body heals much more easily. But if it has all the stress and that isn't addressed, then it's much harder to heal any disease. I had one guy at a workshop and I talk about this in my book, the EFT manual. And he wanted to volunteer as a subject for me to tap on him in front of the whole group. And I really didn't want to tap on him because he'd come in, come in, hobbled in on two crutches. And his leg was in a cost. He said he'd broken his leg in a car crash two weeks before. And I thought that's just a mechanical injury. It's just a fractured humerus.

There's no way that EFT can help. This is just a mechanical physical injury. But actually, the guy was so enthusiastic, so wanted me to work with him, I relented, and I did tapping with him and discovered that so his pain was eight out of 10, that 80% in terms of other scale from zero to 10 in his degree of pain, I tap with this guy. And his pain went down to a two out of 10, even though it was just a mechanical physical injury, because we uncovered many different emotions. He was angry at his wife who made him drive that day. And when he got in the car crash, he was angry at the other driver, he was angry at his doctor, he was afraid his body would heal, he was concerned about the pain, he had just a long string of emotions that were tied to this. When we tapped on those, he had slight of pain of 210. But he was no longer an eight out of 10. Because all the rest of what we think of as physical pain is often emotional. So whatever your disease, we don't know what a fellow disease is. But we know that whatever the condition that the component of it that's due to stress, you can easily release with EFT. In studies, for example, of people going into emergency surgery, research shows with EFT shows that their fears go away. And then the surgery is much easier. There are fewer complications and their hospital stay afterwards is shorter. So all kinds of physical benefits happening from addressing the emotional side of these complaints.

Yeah, okay. So the questions are coming in thick and thick and fast here. So somebody else wants to know star God's disease, progressive degeneration of the macula in the center of the retina. These are all valid questions. And I'm going to I'm going to sort of jump in here, if you don't mind Dawson, with something like EFT or tapping, okay. Try it. Try it. I mean, I've got like I said, type two diabetes, very, very bad neuropathy, it helps me. And the meditation helps me because I can get out of my own way. And that lets my body do what it's designed to do. And your body is designed to heal, it's designed to be in a peak state. Am I correct in saying this? This is an sort of just my personal opinion and experience. David, the body automatically heals the body is just meant to heal. If it isn't healing, then something's holding it back. And so you want to find what's holding it back and release that and so and stress is the main thing that stops the body from from healing. If you're in a state of stress, you aren't in a state of healing. Like I talked a lot in mind matter about cortisol, cortisol molecule is such a good marker for stress. And so cortisol is built from two other hormones, pregnant alone, and progesterone. And when you're stressed, and you send the signal to your body to make lots of cortisol, because you're upset about your disease, you're angry people, you're worried about your body not healing. So now you're sending this epigenetic signal to this gene called CYP B11A to make lots of cortisol. And you're doing that. And you're doing it not because there's any threat to your life, you're doing it psychologically only. Okay, so now your cortisol is rising, and you need lots of pregnant alone and progesterone to make those cortisol molecules. And where does your body get those two precursors to cortisol, it gets them from another hormone called DHEA. And DHEA is also made of pregnant alone and progesterone, and it's your main anti aging and cell communication and cell repair hormone.

So now you are diminishing or decreasing your DHEA. And like research generally shows that cancer patients have only 50% of the DHEA they need, they have a drastic drop in DHEA because stress is having the body get that signal to make cortisol, it's then dismantling, tearing apart those DHEA molecules to get the pregnant alone and progesterone to make cortisol. And so you're literally having this epigenetic effect on your body with stress. So that's why it's so effective to reduce your stress level, because then your body does have a chance to heal when you have this burden of stress. And I mentioned the earlier study, where people's immunoglobulins doubled after their cortisol went down. So you're making all this immune function available to your body. When you just release your stress, stress is not psychological stress is physiological. And if you want to heal, if you want to unleash your body's healing abilities, you need to reduce your stress, it's also possible to use EFT to boost your level of well being. So I'll say positive affirmations sometimes, and do the tapping as well. So I'm envisioning my stem cells proliferating, I'm envisioning my cortisol going down my DHEA going up, I'm visualizing all of these positive things while I tap. And I know that when you do that, you just have a dramatically better level of health, and as well as psychological well being.

So yeah, if the body is a naturally self healing entity, and it's only the stress often that is holding it back, not just psychological stress, but physical stresses, dietary environmental stresses, find those just like Beth did. And Beth was just, she was just an absolutely focused human being on eliminating every possible stress, environment, diet, exercise, other people, the news, she turned off her alerts on her cell phone, quit watching the news, didn't have any of that negative garbage going into her consciousness, and her body, I mean, we're not talking about healing from it, from her bruise here, this was stage four metastasized breast cancer. And in eight weeks, it was gone, as she reduced her stress, so the body is meant to heal itself. Truly, truly amazing. Okay, when we come back, we're going to be wrapping up and going to talk a little bit more about mind to matter with Dr. Dawson Church, because there's a couple of other things in the book. It's not just about healing. So I'd like to get on to that. We'll be back talking some more with Dr. Dawson Church at his mix 93.8 legendary radio. My name is David Watts, the show's what's involved. Well, almost time for us to say goodbye. But before we do, we're still on the line with Dr. Dawson Church, we're talking about his books, we're talking about EFT, we've just gone on to mind to matter.

I don't think an hour is long enough. I think we need to have you back at some stage.

But let's just chat a little bit about mind to matter, because people hear mind to matter. And, you know, the first thing you do is, oh, this is another one of those, the secret things, if you just believe it, you can do it, etc, etc. But it's a lot more than that. I mean, yes, you cover some of the most amazing healing stories. But there is more to the book than that, isn't there? Yes, and it's not called mind over matter, David, it's called mind to matter, because there's this idea, the secret and that whole law of attraction kind of community that, if I think it I can do it, I think it'll appear. And what I say in the introduction to the book, blessed and true of many things, if I think that there's a battleship in my fish pond, it won't just appear that how strongly I believe that people think, okay, I can't make myself 600 just taller, or, you know, 600 shorter, I mean, there's a lot of fixed things in life. But where we are able to achieve a huge amount that we just have in consciousness. So I what I asked in the in the intro to the book is, what's realistic? What can you do? And the answer is far more than you think you can do. I then summarize over 400 scientific studies in the book, the whole book is evidence based, what does science tell you you really can do. And then there are stories like the one of Beth, people who created a lot of money, people who created the love of their lives, they had all of these positive things happening in their in their in their lives, as a result of shifting their consciousness. And then the really crucial part of the book toward the end is all about how we can literally change molecules outside of our bodies with our minds. And one of them, for example, was comes from the mass Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT, in the US, big famous engineering and other school. And there was one lab there, where as part of the graduate students requirements, they have to learn to precipitate sodium crystals out of a super saturated solution. And this is a really difficult, really difficult to do. Most of the graduate students there try many times, many weeks to produce this effect. And eventually they can. But one freshman came in one day to the lab and knew that this is something that happened in the lab. And no one had told him it was difficult. So he just grabbed the solution. And he precipitated out the sodium crystals immediately.

And the lab director came in and said, how do you do that? And he said, well, those were the instructions. And she said, but but it's difficult. And he said, I didn't know that.

And this kid can do it every time. Whereas the people who who've been told this hard, for them, it is hard. And there's also amazing evidence that we can, for example, affect water molecules. There are many studies of plant growth, showing that if you bless water, if you have healing intentions, that are poured into that water, and you then water plants with that with that blessed water, the healing intention water, they grow much better, much stronger. It was unblest. Yeah, there was it was Dr. Emoto that did all the research into that. Yes. Emoto looked at looked at the effect of words. Yes, words on water. I love you. And I forgive you. And yes, angry. Yeah, there was some amazing stuff that was done there. Dawson, we're running out of time. So a couple of things your books are available, they should be available in all good bookstores, but certainly they are available online on amazon.com. You can just look up Dawson Church, you can see all the books there. The EFT one, I haven't read yet, I have read mind to matter and the genie in your genes, I can highly recommend both of them, they will quite literally blow your mind. And I think if you, you know, have a blown mind, there's way more room in it to fit stuff in. So that's, that's a good thing. I love it, David.

EFT is fantastic. A lot of people are asking about EFT in South Africa where we can when we can so maybe it's something to put on your radar. Dawson, before we say goodbye, I often ask my guests if they've got something to give away to our listeners, I believe you may well have something for us. I do, it's EFT mini manual, and it's available from Dawson gift.com. It's my name Dawson, D-A-W-S-O-N, gift.com. And at that link, you'll find a whole bunch of useful information like the free EFT mini manual, you'll find a link to the meditation, I recommend, you'll find links to our veterans stress project, which treats veterans free of charge, all kinds of other goodies at that Dawson gift.com link. So that's the place to go to get that initial step, which is the free mini manual. So Dawson gift.com. Everybody's busy writing down frantically here. And then also EFT. So echo Foxtrot Tango EFT universe.com. There you can get it as well. If you forget all of that, you can't write it down because you're driving now just look up Dr. Dawson church. He's all over the interweb. So you'll find him over there. Dawson in conclusion, where to from here for us as a human race, where to what are the what are the next boundaries?

The next boundaries are far beyond what we've conceived in the past David, because now that we as a human species can change our bodies with our minds, no other species in the history of evolution has been able to do that. No other species can literally shift their awareness, shift their mind and make molecules like the HEN cortisol, we have that ability. And where we're going is we're unlocking levels of human potential, but have never been known before. Because as we shift our bodies, as we shift our realities, we shift our lives, as we shift molecules all around us, we are on the verge of enormous global breakthroughs. And in terms of health, in terms of poverty, in terms of war, in terms of social revolution, we are part of a huge emerging global change. I talk about that at the very, very end of mind matter. And it's a very positive change, where the next 50 years look nothing like our history. Wonderful stuff. Dr. Dawson church, thank you so much for taking time out of what I know is a very, very busy schedule. We do really appreciate and we hope that we're going to see you in South Africa sometime in the not too distant future. If I make a plan together, you'll be the first to know David, thank you. Wonderful stuff.

Thank you very much and go well. Have a great day. You too. Let me go Dr. Dawson church on the line with us. We've taken up almost a minute and a half over my time. And I do say thanks to the gang coming up next for that. I'll catch you again next Monday between six and eight for another edition of what's involved as for tonight. Thanks for listening. Have a good one. I just need to be be able to press my play button now and then I can be out of here.