Jamal Sahib — Author, Business Coach, Business Owner

Monday evening as it is, each and every Monday. Moved to slot an hour later now, so I'm with you between seven and nine. It is, of course, what's involved. And man, we got a jam-packed show tonight. We're starting off with our first guest is gonna be Jamal Sahib. I am also going to be chatting to a very, very, very interesting, interesting lady. A lady by the name of Charlotte Kimp, she is the author of a book called Futures Alchemist. So we're gonna be talking all about that. Forward by Graham Coddrington. I don't know if any of you have heard of Graham. He's one of the most well-known futurists in the country. So Charlotte is obviously on the right path. But before we get there, good evening, Jamal. - Good evening. - Good to have you here with us. Jamal Sahib is the author of a book called Start with the End in Mind, The Five Secrets to Life and Business Success. Now, I got the mail saying, you know, this is it. Jamal's coming out with a book. It's gonna be launched, et cetera, et cetera. And I was like, okay, all right, you know, let's have a look. We get a lot of books that come across our desk. And I gotta say, I was and am very, very impressed. It's a great book. - Thanks very much, David.

- So before we get into the book and what these five secrets are, because you often hear, you know, five secrets to this, 10, top 10 of this, how to do this. And you think, eh, is it gonna have any substance? This kind of smacks you upside the head and makes you go, hang on a second. Let's think about this. So let's start at the very beginning and start off with Jamal. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Are you a Joburg boy born and bred or? - So I was actually born in the Natal Midlands. I grew up in a town called Escort. - Really? - Yeah, so small town boy. Finished high school in Escort and moved to the big city to study engineering back in 2002. - Okay. - So I moved up to Pretoria back then and yeah, I haven't really been back to Escort except to visit friends and family. - Uh-huh. Wow, 'cause it is kind of, you know, everybody knows Escort is that place you pass on the way to Durban. - And you get speeding fines. - Where you get speeding fines. So you moved up here, you studied engineering. - Correct. - What's your degree? What then? - So I got my degree and I worked in corporate. I had an academic scholarship with BHP Billiton which was one of the largest mining companies back in the 2000s.

- Uh-huh. - Graduated and started working at BHP Billiton as an engineer in training. Absolutely loved it. Had a fantastic time in corporate. Flew up the corporate ladder. Went from engineering training to process engineer, senior process engineer. Moved to Anglo Platinum for a period of time. Moved back to BHP Billiton as a production superintendent. And eventually, just before I turned 30, in fact, I was about 29 in a bit, I was appointed mine manager according to the Mine Health and Safety Act. So before 30, mine manager for BHP Billiton in the Kalahari at Hotel Manganese Mines which was a Manganese mine. - And it's not, it's named very aptly. - Yeah, yeah, hot as hell, hey. And had an absolutely brilliant, brilliant career in engineering, in mining and in metallurgy. So I sort of became Mr. Fixit in that space. So I'd move to a business unit and we'd do a turnaround off a business unit. And the interesting thing for me was that I'd move into a business unit and the people would actually fix the business unit. So even though I have an engineering background, the technical engineering never really interested me. But it was more that way of thinking of process with starting with the end in mind that got me to actually use those skills and bring a team together and get a team to actually fix a business unit.

And we had an absolutely smashing time doing that kind of stuff. So we actually got to a point where we held quite a few records in production, in safety at that operation. And in 2015, I enrolled for an MBA at Gibbs. - Because one degree wasn't enough. - Yeah. So I absolutely loved the business space as well. And well, actually I did the PDBA at Gibbs in 2010 and that was sort of a taster into the business world for me. So in 2015, I went back and I did the MBA, which was between 2015 and '16. And at that time, I was no longer with BHP bullets and I was with a different multinational mining company. And unfortunately, the commodity prices had crashed.

So we had to do a lot of restructuring in that business. And that was probably the toughest, toughest time for me because I really didn't enjoy restructuring a business because it impacted people. - 'Cause you mentioned that in the book as well, that that was a bit rough for you because you kind of were starting to get this entrepreneurial sort of feeling and you actually blamed one of your lecturers. - Interestingly, I actually had coffee with him today after two years. So prof Nick Bernadale and I actually had coffee today and I said to him, you actually, you made me unemployable. So I left corporate at that time because Nick was challenging us where he said to us, many of you are sitting with these qualifications with the acumen and you sitting in corporate jobs and you actually restructuring businesses and people are being impacted and they leaving, well, they're not leaving, they're being forced to leave corporate or other businesses and they're trying to start up businesses but they don't have the tools of the acumen to start them up and they're failing. And he challenged us and he asked, why are you guys actually not starting businesses? And so that was a turning point for me.

I actually, in fact, I said to him today when I met him for coffee slash lunch, I felt as though he was speaking to me but he was actually speaking to a room of 50 people doing his elective and at that point I decided, you know what, I was actually gonna go out and create jobs. So that was my end in mind there but I didn't have a start. I said, I know that I love South Africa, I'm absolutely passionate about this country and I know for a fact that it is our responsibility to create jobs in this country because that's the biggest challenge we sit with right now is the massive unemployment and the hygienic coefficient. So I had decided I'm actually gonna get out there and I'm gonna start creating jobs. So I started a number of businesses of which I still own a few of them and we've created about 70 direct jobs in the last two and a half years. - Now you say 70 direct jobs and that in itself is phenomenal but the knock on effect of those 70 jobs is very profound 'cause a lot of people, I mean it goes that now that they've got a job, the families, they can, you know, there's a whole lot that you can gain from those 70 jobs exponentially. - 100% correct. So the next thing I looked at was I figured, okay, so I have these skills and I have these qualifications and I have this practical experience from corporate and from being an entrepreneur.

How can I roll this to become more exponential? Because by me starting businesses, yes, we are creating jobs. However, if I coached other business owners to grow their businesses, that would result in them creating more jobs and that would be more exponential. So that was the next step where I then became a business coach and started to coach business owners. And the more I spend time with small, medium and large independent businesses, the more I realize how much of help they actually need out there because some of them are absolutely phenomenally brilliant, but they get stuck at a certain point. - This is, you know, when you talk about business and we talk small, medium businesses, oftentimes that happens. So what led, well, I tell you what, when we come back, let's discuss what led to the writing of the book because as I said, the book is brilliant and I mean, it's five secrets, but I mean, again, I can see having read through the book, if you apply those, it's gonna do some massive, make some massive changes in your life. So we'll talk about that when we come back. My special guest in studio with me, author of "Start With The End In Mind, The Five Secrets To Life And Business Success," Jamal Saheb, so glad to have him in the studio with us.

We'll be telling some more when we come back. Anyway, it is what's involved. My special guest in studio with me is Jamal Saheb, author of "Start With The End In Mind, The Five Secrets To Life And Business Success." So before the break, I said to you, okay, when we come back, we're gonna talk about what, I mean, you know, to listen to you talking now, you're like, okay, you got a degree in engineering, you started, you started several businesses, you studied for an MBA, which number one, I think people are nuts to do 'cause I don't think it gets, it doesn't get easier. I mean, I've had a look at the curriculum, I'm like, nope, everybody says you should do it, no? Many MBA, no. - You should. You should. - I know. You're the next one to set. It intimidates the life out of me. It just looks like so much. - Here's an offer, I'll mentor you through it. - Uh-huh, hmm. - When you're ready. - You see, you're doing this on air now and then now this is where the ego's gonna kick in. Thank you for your kind offer. We saw, all right, let's talk about you, enough of me. So what led you to write a book? Because initially you were one of those, you mentioned a quote in the book, I can't remember it often, about everybody has a book, something about everybody has a book in them that should stay there. - That's where it should stay.

(laughing) So the realization came when I thought about the responsibility that we have in society. And as I said to you, the next step for me was becoming a business coach. So I could coach business owners so that they could grow their businesses and create more employment. - Yeah. - The next level from that was if I put this information into a book, I suddenly had access to way more people. So this information could actually impact way more people's lives and through this process I'm hoping I can drive entrepreneurship in South Africa and I live in this world of abundance. There's abundance thinking and I truly believe that there's enough out there for all of us. - I agree. I can get this message out to 20 million people and if 20 million people can take one thing out of this book that will help them become a better person either in their personal lives or in their business lives, then I've added value beyond myself. - Because that's what I think was so good about this book because it's not just a business book, okay? It says very clearly and it's what it says on the tin essentially, the five secrets to life and life comes first interestingly enough and business success. 'Cause I reckon if you can win at life, business kind of should take care of itself.

- 100% spot on. So the human being has a certain amount of capacity and if in your mind capacity, if your life is not in order and you're fighting a life battle where, I mean, simply put your lives in shambles. The probability that you're gonna be able to grow your business is reduced significantly because you're using mind space to actually fight unnecessary life battles. So if you have 100% capacity as a human and you're using 50% of that capacity trying to figure out your life because your life's in shambles, then you only have 50% capacity left to actually grow your business. So it's about life and business success because I have what I call and conversations. It's not this or that, it's this and that. So if you have a happy life, if you've structured your life in such a way that you actually increase the probability of success in your business life or in your employed life as well. - Well, that's another thing and we're gonna digress. I'm gonna digress 'cause I'm famous for that a little bit. But in the book, you talk a lot about your family, about your parents, sad to hear your dad passed away when you were 20, but your mom's still with you and you talk a little bit about your mental.

But a lot about your wife and about your kids and there's lessons. I mean, I love that coach's corner that you've got in there as well, the little bit of coaching in there. But it seems like you do, whilst you love and celebrate entrepreneurship and business, et cetera, et cetera, you're very much about family. - So that actually comes out of secret five and it's secret five because you need to start with the end in mind. So I'm hoping some people actually jump to read secret five which is the last secret first. And it actually comes back down to start with the end in mind equals success. But what is your definition of success? And for me, my definition of success is linked back to contentment. I am successful when I am content. So for me, it's the number of moments that I have that define how successful I've been in a day, in a week, in a month. - And we actually were talking about that off air and I'm glad we got to talk about it again on there because I said to you as well, I've been there, made the lots of money, did the whole lot, businesses, lost business, the whole lot. Where I am now, if people were to look at me from a financial perspective, they may go, "Well, you know, you're not doing terribly well." If I was only measured on that, but in terms of that contentment and those, but those deep sighs there, I am the richest man in the world right now.

- And that's what it's about. So for me, the family and friends around me are the people that actually helped to bring me that contentment. So since I have and conversations, I focus strongly on family, on friends. And I mean, I choose my circle around me quite carefully because it's important to choose that circle with people that energize you, right? Because that secret three is the power of positive energy. So I choose a circle that energizes me and they help bring me contentment. And since I have and conversations, I focus on business as well because it's business that becomes an enabler to be able to do the fun things that create memories. So I've said to my kids, my two boys, in fact, my big son turned 10 on the 23rd of November, which was two days ago. - Happy birthday to him. - And the small guys, six. And I always say to them, I say, guys, please don't be waiting for a big inheritance. I'm going to give you your inheritance whilst I'm alive. And what is that? I'm gonna give you guys opportunities and memories. - I think that is phenomenal. If more people thought like that, that is brilliant. - So my plan is to actually give them opportunities to actually be the best version of themselves.

And with memories, I've said to them, well, memories for them and for myself, because I'm a little bit selfish because we have and conversations. So I plan to take them on an international holiday once a year, every year, but for a number of reasons. One, because we get to spend time together and I learned this from my mentor, for that two weeks, we eat three or four meals together. We are together all the time. We are very, we're not distracted because it's not mobile phones and emails all the time. People understand we're traveling overseas and they sort of give us that space. And through that, I get to show them different cultures because that's so important. CQ, understanding the cultural quotient of intelligence, understanding that different people are different and how they are different and why they're different and how they can add value in your world. So when we travel internationally, they get to understand that there's different cultures out there and different, I mean, I'll never forget, my son was, I think, eight and we were in Dubai and we were going down an escalator. And my son asked me, he says, dad, what would happen if I walked up a down escalator? And I said to him, son, it depends on where you are.

The sad reality is if you're in Malaysia, we were there like a few months before that, if you're in Malaysia, somebody will very quickly come and tell you it's not the right thing to do. In Dubai, you probably would get arrested and in South Africa, nothing would probably happen. - People look at you and go, crazy kid. - Yeah, oh, some people might actually join you and think it's cool. And so he asked me, why is that? And I said to him, well, if you look at it, different countries have now reached a different level of discipline. So the level of discipline in China is very different and I'm not talking, I'm generalizing, yes. But if you look at the average, the average level of discipline in a country like China is way higher than the average discipline in a country like South Africa right now. And I'm teaching them these things so that they can see it and understand it. And that's why, for me, it start with the end in mind equals success. For me, enabling them, giving them those opportunities means more than living an inheritance for them to fight with when I'm gone. - Yeah, when we come back, let's talk about the five secrets and just go through them briefly. We could sit on secret one for an hour easily, easily, easily.

But we're gonna go through them. Jamal has also been kind enough to give away, how many copies are we gonna give away? We're gonna give away three signed copies of his book, start with the end in mind. We'll ask a question that'll be based on the five secrets. Just a reminder to you, if you'd like to SMS us, 41348 is the SMS number. Those SMSs are charged at 150. Otherwise, you can WhatsApp us, 084-822-0938. That's 084-822-0938. If you have any questions for Jamal, we would love to hear from you. One of the things is, as I said, and the listeners know this, is I open up the lines and WhatsApp and the SMS line. And I share. Sometimes I overshare when I get home in the evenings. My fiance said, "Did you have to tell them about?" But I do. I mean, last week I'd gone for a DNA test and for a company called GeneWays. And they discovered, and Dr. Kristin North, who was doing the whole thing with me, she was trying to be very polite about it, but there's a certain gene that you can have, which makes you more susceptible to pain. And she goes, "Oh, it's the sissy gene." But she didn't want to say it on air. So I said, "Say it on air, I got the sissy gene." I'm okay with that. So somebody goes, "Let's hear all the secrets." But he seems to be repeating Stephen Covey.

That's from Mitch. Mitch, you know what? When I saw it, I thought the same thing. No, very different. Very, very different, okay? And you'll see why when we get into the secrets. Somebody else said that Jamal, for such a relatively young man, you are so wise and inspiring. Love that you understand that family is paramount. I would love to read your book. And I think the lady's name is pronounced Taisa. An old lady who needs inspiration. - Oh, I love it. - There we go. So there we go. And then there's somebody else who has a problem with understanding, I think, humor. Why are you raising kids who would, to quote you, "Fight over your inheritance." Charles, that was tongue in cheek, buddy. Anyway, here we go. These are the kind of listeners we have, and we love them, and we love the fact that they do get back to us. Okay, so start with the end in mind. Secret number one. What is it all about? - Cool, so secret number one is actually knowing yourself. So as I put it, you need to know yourself, what's and all. - Yes. - But not like Derek Watts. I mean like-- - Or David Watts. - Or David Watts. (laughing) I didn't want to say David, but anyway. - You could have said David Watts. David's got warts and all, so it's fine.

But by knowing yourself, and I don't know if this is because of your engineering background, you talk about a couple of assessments and things that you can do. The one you talk about is Myers-Briggs. - Yeah, I mean, that's a great starting point because I feel people need to actually understand themselves. Are you really an introvert? Are you an extrovert? Are you a thinker? Are you a feeler? Who are you really? And the more you understand yourself, the better conscious decisions you can take about scenarios in which you put yourself, right? So I speak of the first one being a basic MBTI, and then there's an adapted version that's, it's actually open source, but I've covered it in two or three different areas in my career and in my studies, and I call it the cap styles. So I've adapted that for myself as well. And you can do a battery of, they call it monkey puzzle, or multiple choice question tests, and the result will come back, and it will sort of put you in a personality style category, and there are four cap styles. So some people are what I call red cap army generals. They just wanna get stuff done. - Don't bore me with the details, do it. - Be brief, be brilliant, and be gone.

So you can picture an army general. He just wants the facts, how many tanks at the border, where we're being attacked from, et cetera, et cetera. And those are the kind of people that just get stuff done. They're great executors, but on the flip side of it, sometimes they don't take their people along with them from a care perspective. Not all the time, but sometimes. Then you get what I call a green cap innovator, and the personality style of a green cap innovator, if you had to actually do an extension to, typically what animal would typically have a high, high green cap, I would say a chimpanzee, because it's an innovative being that also can get bored quite quickly. So what's really cool is when you have a high red cap and a high green cap, because it's your green cap that helps you be innovative and come up with weird and wonderful ideas, which entrepreneurs quite often need, and it's your red cap that helps you actually follow through and execute them to completion. And then you have what I call a yellow cap, Labrador style personality, which is more the soft person that's always concerned about people and how do people feel. And then you have a blue cap personality style, which is attention to detail, like a bookkeeper.

And the equivalent of that in an animal personality style or a bird personality style would be an owl. So they're generally studious. They are those people, you give them a contract to read, and it takes them three weeks to read it. And when it comes back, they'll pick out all of the errors in a contract, or they'll make sure all of the I's are dotted in the T's across. And those are different personality styles. So once you know yourself, you know which ones are your strengths and which are your areas of, as I call them, development. So there's another really good assessment called a disc profile. And a disc profile talks about whether you are dominant, whether you are an influencer, whether you are steady. And it actually sort of aligns back with the cap styles. But once you understand yourself, you can put yourself into scenarios both in your personal life, as well as in your work or business life, into scenarios where you increase the probability of being successful in that space. So that's secret one. - Okay. - Secret two then becomes knowing the people around you. - I like this one. This was a nice secret for me to go through. It really was. So talk to me about it. - So who are the people around you?

Your partner. What personality style is your partner? Is your partner an introvert or an extrovert? Is your partner a red cap, a yellow cap, a green cap, or a blue cap individual? Quite often you find that two people in a relationship, be it a personal relationship or in a business relationship, they might have opposite MBTI style. So one person might be an extrovert and one person might be an introvert. Or one person might be a red cap and the other person might be a yellow cap. So one person is an army general and the other person is concerned about how people feel. If you understand the people around you in your personal life and in your business life, you can actually use that to your strength because you can actually move those people into areas that will actually deliver the best result for the situation. And I mean... - Got it. - Yeah, quite often we get frustrated with the way people behave because they don't behave like us. But if we stop to understand, who are they really? And we can't change them. The only person you can really change is yourself. - And you work on yourself, absolutely. - So once you have the conscious awareness of who the people around you are, you can approach it from a direction that will give you the best possible outcome for any scenario.

And that's why secret two in life and in business are so critical. - Okay, we're gonna go to a break in just a bit, but let's do secret three because, and I'll give you a bit of a context here. I often have, once a month, I have Lawrence Urberholzer in here, who's the CEO of a company called Retire Rich and Happy. And in order for him to explain some of his investment strategies, he had to use what he calls the bucket system for me. And you talk about buckets as well in secret three. Talk to me about buckets. - Cool, so secret three is all about the power of positive energy and how you actually get different types of people in the world. So you have some people, okay, let's start with the buckets first. So I believe that every individual walks around with a bucket of energy in front of them or in them. So you can picture this. You've got your two arms wrapped around a bucket and you're walking around with this bucket of energy in front of you. Now your bucket can be either full of energy, it could be half, it could be empty or wherever it is, but you carry a bucket that should have energy in it. And you walk around with a double-sided ladle. So it's a handle with ladles on two sides.

So when you actually meet up with somebody else and you interact with them, you do one of two things. You either scoop in their bucket, scoop energy out and pour it out onto the floor and into the universe. And I call that kind of a person a bucket dipper. Or you can be the kind of person that scoops energy out of the universe and pours it into somebody else's bucket. But what happens is because the ladle has two sides, when you dip from somebody else's bucket, you also dip from your own and you pour your energy out on the floor as well. So I love using a scenario to actually describe this. So you're walking in a supermarket and you bump into a person that you know quite well. And you're like, "Hi, Mr. So-and-so, how are you doing?" And he says, "Oh, not good." And I can just picture him dipping in your bucket and emptying energy out. And he's like, "You know, I've just lost my job "and my kids are giving me a hard time "and my house is falling apart." So it's early in the morning and you were bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and you got into this conversation. But at the end of that conversation, after you listened to this person complain about every single possible thing they could think of, they've actually dipped in your bucket, stolen all of your energy and poured it out on the floor.

Now at the end of that conversation, when that person leaves that conversation, there's no way that that person could feel better by complaining. So that person is typically a bucket tipper and you'll find whenever you meet that person, the probability is high is that that's how they will behave. Conversely, you have people that are bucket fullers. You bump into Ms. Jones in the supermarket, "Hi, Ms. Jones, how are you doing?" And she goes, "Absolutely awesome. "My health has been good." And she's like 75, but she's in good spirits. So she's scooping energy out of the environment around her and she's filling your bucket. And she says something nice to you. She says, "David, you're looking absolutely awesome. "I haven't seen you in 10 years, but look at you." And she's being genuine about it. So she's not being pretentious, but she'll look for something nice to actually say to you and fill your bucket with positive energy. At the end of that conversation, you leave feeling energized because she's filled your bucket. But in the process, she fills her own bucket as well, not even realizing it because when she leaves, she feels so nice that she actually left you with a smile. So that's that theory of being a bucket tipper versus being a bucket fuller.

And in my world, I try and create as many bucket fullers out there because bad news is available anywhere and everywhere. - Oh yeah, yeah, we live on that. South Africa, we thrive on the bad news. - So we try and pick out the positive news and we try and actually share the positive news. And I always say, quite often people see me after many years and the first thing they say to me is, "What happened to your hair?" And I'm like, okay, is that the best you could come up with? You know, that's what I'm thinking. Whereas I would, if I saw somebody after 10 years, be like, wow, it's absolutely awesome seeing you after so many years, you look great. For the same amount of effort, I would choose to actually say something nice rather than say something that would possibly make somebody feel bad. - Apparently there were only X amount of perfect heads created in this world. - Yeah, and the rest they covered with hair. - And the rest they covered with hair, just saying. - So that's the theory of bucket filling and bucket dipping and bucket fillers, right? So what I say to people is the only person you can change is yourself. So when you get out there, find yourself in scenarios where, or put yourself in the scenarios where you actually make somebody feel nice or good before they can make you feel bad.

Because if I bump into you, David, in 10 years from now and I go, David, you look absolutely awesome. I mean, look at those, you know, look at those arms. Have you been in the gym, bud? You know, you're looking good. It becomes so difficult for you to say something nasty to me. - Two, and if it's said though, because we have what I call an emotional or a built-in BS detector, okay? So we can detect bull if it's being spoken to us. But if you genuinely, and I've tried this out, and the listeners know, I have a lot of,

my background is a lot of NLP and hypnotherapy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, if you do something and you're trying to BS somebody, they can pick up on it straight away. But if you go out there and you genuinely are nice, it is, you're right, you disarm somebody totally because how do they go back and be nasty about it? So I think this is brilliant. I love the bucket analogy. We've got two more secrets to go. We might only be able to get number four done though, so we're gonna have to leave number five for when you get the book, okay? So there we go. Right, let's move along and we'll be back with my special guest, Jamal Saheb, start with The End in Mind, The Five Secrets to Life and Business Success. Great book, What's Involved? Man, I said we got a jam-packed show tonight and this time it's flown past. It's still down there reeling in the years. My special guest is Jamal Saheb, author of the book, start with The End in Mind, The Five Secrets to Life and Business Success. Jamal, you've been kind enough to offer us three signed copies that you're gonna be giving away. - I have. - So if you'd like a signed copy, listen up. We're gonna tell you how to do that before we say cheers to Jamal.

And then we're gonna be talking to Charlotte Kemp in just a little while, Future's Alchemist. And during that chat, I'll tell you who my third set of guests are for tonight. We thought, you know, as we approach the end of the year, why slow down? Why slow down? We're gonna just keep on going. Jamal, so we've covered the first three secrets. Secret number four. What is secret number four? - So secret number four talks about self-deception. And I often speak to people and I ask them, you know, to tell me about a scenario where, for example, they did a business deal and it didn't go the way they had planned for it to go. And quite often you'd get blame. You know, it was my partner, it was, you know, it was the economy, it was everything else. And self-deception comes back down to, you know, it's so often as human beings where we lie to ourselves for so long that we actually start to believe it. And in the space of self-deception, I ask people to get out of the box because when you are in the box, everything that happens is as a result of somebody else or something else. That's when you are in the box. But when you are out of the box, if something happens, you stop and you ask yourself, what was my contribution to that?

Because as I always say, the only person that you can change is yourself. So in self-deception, you need to get out the box and the faster you get out the box and you look at every situation and you ask yourself, what was my contribution to that? The moment you realize what your contribution to that is, you can change it and then increase the probability of success through that process, right? So if I had to use an example,

let's say I drove into a part of Johannesburg, right? And yeah, let's say I drove into a part of Johannesburg and driving and somebody smashes into me at an intersection. Now I would first ask myself, what was my contribution to that? Yes, accidents do happen. But if I know I'm driving to a certain part of Johannesburg at a certain part of the night, it's a Saturday night, I know people are generally partying in that area. The probability of people drinking and driving in that area around nightclubs is a bit higher than in a different part of, for example, South Africa. Why would I just drive through a traffic light, even if it was green for me, knowing that the probability of people driving under the influence of alcohol in that area on a Saturday night are high. So my contribution to that was, I increased the risk or I increased the probability of being in an accident by being there in the first place and not slowing down to just check. Because having the conscious mindset that says, I need to actually take decisions that increase my probability of success is actually being out of the box, right? So if I am in an area at 11 or 12 at night in Johannesburg where there are a lot of nightclubs, we know that people are potentially under the influence of alcohol and driving in that area, then I should slow down.

And even if a robot is green, I should yield and look to see if somebody potentially could be coming through a red robot and smashing into me versus just driving in their blind, blind, blindfolded, you know, as if everything is just normal. And somebody smashes into me and I go, oh, look at this dude smashed into me and he's drunk. Why go through all of that in the first place? Take accountability for your actions. - Got it. Okay, so are we running out of time? So let's have a look.

The book is start with the Indian mind, The Five Secrets to Life and Business Success. Jamal is kindly offered to give away three signed copies and that they're actually gonna courier you those copies as well. Thank you, Jamal, that is very, very kind of you.

Tell me, okay, the question is, and don't, listen now. Now you gotta pay attention 'cause this is not, I know everybody's on autopilot and they email the station. This is not the station address that you email, okay? What you need to do is you need to email growing, G-R-O-W-I-N-G, [email protected]. I will spell Jamal Sahib for you. It's J-A-M-A-L-S-A-H-I-B. So [email protected]. Tell me what secret number three is. Tell me what secret number three is. So send that email and you can just, what can the subject be? Mix FM, put Mix FM as the subject and you tell us what secret number three is. Jamal is gonna then go and have a look at those emails. If you are one of those three winners, they will contact you directly and get you a signed book. Other than that, Jamal, where is the book available? - So the book's currently available in most bookshops in South Africa. - Okay. - So exclusive books across the country, CNA across the country have taken copies and they've shipped it out, as well as many of the other, many of the reputable small bookstores have them as well. - Oh, brilliant. - And if somebody's in a small town that doesn't have a bookstore, they're more than welcome to email us at growing, well, on the email address [email protected] and we can arrange to actually, they can purchase one directly from us and we can ship it across as well.

- Digitally, yet? - Digitally available on, the Kindle version is available on Amazon. - Fantastic stuff. Jamal Sahib, thank you so much for coming in and having a chat to us tonight. We wish you all the best. Before you go, the question I like to ask all my guests, what's next? What's your next? - So next for me is to continue to actually grow this entrepreneurship drive through business coaching. I need to access as many business owners out there that actually wanna put up a hand and say, help me. I wanna grow this business and I'm stuck. And I can't wait to meet more of those people, help them grow these businesses because my dream for South Africa is to have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world. And even if it takes us a hundred years, well, that's way too long. So we should try and do it in way less than that. - Fantastic stuff. Jamal Sahib, we wish you all the best. Thank you so much for tonight. - Thank you so much for having me, David. - There we go, that's my special guest. Up next, we're gonna be talking to Charlotte Kemp, author of "Futures, Alchemists." We'll be back in just a bit.