Mushambi Mutuma — Author, Speaker, Entrepreneur, Tech Leader and CEO Of Altivex

- Yeah, have you ever had one of those afternoons where you kind of feel like, you know, hugging a kiss would not go amiss? I promise you, it's been like, it's been like that for me all day. One of those things, I had to go through to Benoni and help my mom out today, so left early to get here. And then the traffic that I've warned everybody about caught me. - That's been a rough one. - Hey, geez, like my special guest in studio is the CEO of, let me get it right, multi-- - Altavex. - Altavex, Altavex. You know, I wrote it down, but I'm-- - It's Monday. (laughing) - The dyslexia is strong with this one today. Machampi Mutuma, hello. - How are you? - Geez, okay. Both of us can sit down and just breathe. 'Cause you had the same thing. I don't know what happened to traffic today. - It took about an hour and some change to get here. It was a rough one. - I know, and then for me, I mean, I was literally like three, 400 meters away from the radio station. I could see the wall and the gates. - I just couldn't get it. - Dead stop, mate, dead stop. It took me, initially when I left Benoni, my GPS said, "Oh, dude, relax. "You'll get there about 20 to five, "quarter to five, perfect." I think it took me 45 minutes to do those 300 meters.

It was insane. Anyway, it's done. - We're here. - We're here. Let's talk about, you are the CEO of this business, but I mean, it's not the only one. I mean, it's like your thing. You're like a serial entrepreneur. And then you do it not just South Africa 'cause South Africa's boring. So you go into Africa, you go into the States. Let's go right back and let's start at the very beginning. Tell me a little bit about Shambi. Who are you? Where did you start? Where did you grow up? And where did you get the voice? 'Cause that's not allowed, man. - I'm sorry. - That is just one of those beautiful voices. I can see why you do public speaking, professional speaking as well. But let's start at the beginning. - Yeah, man. So I appreciate you having me here, David. I'm originally from Zimbabwe. My dad is Zimbabwean. My mother's from the Eastern Cape. So that's where I was born and I got a little bit buttered. And then in the early 90s, we went on a little bit of a self-imposed exile and moved to the US. And that's where the accent and the twang came from. I was there for about 17 years. - Okay. - Yeah, and then I studied there. I went to school. I grew up in Texas for a long time. Don't hold me, don't hold it against me.

- Yeah, I was gonna say really, of all the places we chose Texas. - And then I moved to Los Angeles, went to school there, lived in New York for a little bit before I came back here. And I've been back in South Africa about 11 years now. - Okay. - Yeah. - All right. Why coming to South Africa? - I had to come home. I was, a lot of people ask that. Why would you ever leave the US? But-- - Oh, I could think of 100 reasons, you know? Like, especially now. (laughing) They're orange. (laughing) But yeah, no, I think it was just time to come home. I really wanted to be back here. And I thought that there was enough work to be done here. So, I was excited about being back. - It's an amazing thing. I mean, I've been standing in for Tony Blut, that well, I will be this week. So, I was on the breakfast show this morning. And we were talking about the whole #ImStaying thing. And I was kind of like, it's, yeah, okay, it's nice. Well done, yes, I'm staying. I'm more concerned with the millions of us that don't really have an option. You know, the #ImStaying implies you have money to go somewhere else. - Right, you can actually go, but-- - But why would you want to? And you just spoke about it. You had to come home.

Africa is in my blood. I cannot imagine living anywhere else. You know, a lot of people go, oh, you know, you got talent, you can do this, do that. Leave, why? - That's the thing for me as well, hey? And I mean, I was fortunate enough to kind of get my US citizenship. And I was there 17 years, so long time. So I didn't have to necessarily come back. But for me, I always felt like an outsider that side of the world. I didn't feel natural. And as soon as I got back here and the red soil was just like, you just breathe out. Like we did when we got here, you know? You just breathe easy. And yeah, it just feels natural. And I couldn't imagine being anywhere else. - When you go, and this has happened to me, when you go through customs, even if it is a surly customs official that's been on duty for 12 hours, and they go, stamp your passport and say welcome home. Nothing like it. And the smell after a thunderstorm, those first drops of rain just falling into that dust. You talk about the red earth and those plops. And that's, you can't beat it. You can't beat it. - You can't get it anywhere else. - And you know what? If we're not gonna be part of the solution, all of us collectively, then we are part of the problem.

That's what I believe. - I agree 100%. - So you study, what did you study? - I actually studied politics. I thought that's what I was gonna get into, going to law school after that. And I think I loved politics, I loved the law, but it taught me a lot about why I shouldn't do it. So I adjusted quickly out of that. (laughing) - So now, Altivix, was that the first company that you started? - No, I've been an entrepreneur as long as I can remember. Even growing up, you know? - I've been an entrepreneur for a long time. I've been an entrepreneur for a long time. - I don't know as long as I can remember, even growing up. My very first business was cutting lawn in the neighborhood, for the neighbors. And so I had started a couple small businesses while I was at school, DJing on the side, all kinds of entertainment industries, started some e-commerce stores. But really kind of what started my love for tech was my father. So growing up, my dad worked for Apple Computer for a long time. And I think that's what really embedded my love for devices and gadgets and technology, especially given that time in like the mid 90s when Apple was kind of going through a rise. Yeah, so that's really what started that passion.

- So then, Altivix started with, yeah, in South Africa. - Yeah, here in South Africa, 10 years ago. - What does it do? - So we're a digital lab. So we build mobile applications. We do e-commerce sites. We do a lot of custom banking solutions. We do a lot of social media marketing. We're digital purveyors, if you will. - So maybe after the show, I could get a few tips. Bring what's involved to a wider audience. It's amazed me though, because in terms of that, the show as well gets turned into a podcast. And my reach with the podcast, when I look at the stats, people in India are downloading this, people in the States. - Podcasts are the fastest growing medium right now. Voice, I love everything else, is the fastest growing medium right now in the world. - So I'm on the right track. - Yeah, you're on the right track. - I just got to keep on keeping on. - Yeah, and I was reading about it the other day. There is only, there's under 9,000 podcasts in the world. - Yeah. - Right? And it's the fastest growing medium. So if you're doing it right now, it's the perfect time before, you know, how many radio stations exist in the world, how many TV channels, how many other forms of news and online media.

Podcasts is literally the future, so yes. - I keep wondering, 'cause it doesn't seem to be huge in South Africa yet. And I mean, you know, I ask, but I don't hear many people that have podcasts, sure. You get the radio stations where they'll take the music show, and they'll go, oh look, it's a podcast. This is more a podcast that I happen to do on radio. That's my focus. So I've got the terrestrial listeners, obviously, which is great. - The real focus is the digital ones. - But the focus is the digital thing. But you know, at the tender age of 52, this digital technology thing just bends my brain a bit. - That's fair. - Starting off this year, I had a bit of a change in business situation, so I was like, you know what? I don't need video producers and graphic designers, which I had, and I don't need web developers. I will do it myself. And then the fatal words, and I think as an entrepreneur, you'll understand these words. What I said to my fiance was, I'm gonna do it myself. I mean, how difficult can it be? - For sure. - I've found out exactly how difficult it can be and what to do, and just to get an online presence. Because in the old days, you know, step together a website, yay, everybody wants to come.

Now it's a case of, and I did this, you know, build it and they don't give a damn. - They don't come, yeah, that's very true, hey? But I still, I think I would say that even now, in terms of resources and the availability of information, it's a better time than any to kind of start those things and learn it. It's not easy, it's not simple by any means, but the tools to do it, faster and cheaper than ever before, are certainly there. - Now you're involved then. I mean, you know, you've been very modest about it. I mean, you know, your clients, your speaking clients, you've got things like Suits and Sneakers, QuickBooks, Standard Bank, PwC, Alan Gray, UJ, UCT, I mean, it just goes on and on. And in terms of your clients, I do, I have to confess, and I confess this to all of my guests, I'm a bit of a stalker. So I try to do a bit of stalking beforehand if I don't know about you. - That's fair. - But I mean-- - I won't be creeped out today. - South African Reserve Bank, one of your clients, Vodacom, DiskM, geez, African Bank, Soft and Free, Telco, the list goes on and on. I mean, you guys are doing some fairly impressive things. - We've been really lucky, hey? And it's been a long burn.

I think literally, probably in the last 24 months is really when we started to peek and really kind of find our footing in the industry. 'Cause we've been at it 10 years, and it's not easy at the beginning. - I love this, you know. You've written a book, "Ticket Jason." Look at you, Rishambi, "Overnight Success." Well done, meantime. - Yeah, no, it's taken a long-- - In the trenches, it's been hard, slow. - It really has, and it still is, you know? And we're good, and we've got really good clients and some amazing relationships, and we're known now, but it doesn't let up. The challenges get different, and you get better at dealing with them, but they still remain, you know? - I think it's absolutely wonderful what you're doing. We're gonna talk about that, because I have a whole philosophy in my life about South Africa and about Africa and going forward. So we're gonna talk about that when we come back, and then we're gonna talk about the book as well, because in between all of this, you just decided, heck, I'll write a book, which I haven't finished yet, and it's not because I love reading. I read a lot of books. It's just that you've made things really easy to understand, but even me, you know?

It kind of takes a couple of readings to get through these things. So my special guest in studio is Machambi Matuma, which tonight we're having a chat to him. Just remember the WhatsApp line. If you'd like to add your comments, ask any questions, anything like that, you can WhatsApp us on 084-822-0938. That's 084-822-0938. Otherwise SMS us at 41348, 41348. Those SMSs will be charged at 150. Back with Machambi in just a bit. My special guest in studio, Machambi Matuma. You've done so much, your overnight success. I mean, a mere 10 years, so that's pretty cool. Then a book. Why? - Well, of course, I mean, that's the proverbial thing every entrepreneur must do, right? - Yeah, yeah, and the way they talk about it, you can just churn them out, lift right, you sing to the reality. - Yeah, it's so simple. - A little different. - Yeah, it took a little bit of time, hey? I think for me, it was really rooted in the work that we do, trying to do research about what's happening on the continent. There really wasn't that many resources I could find that say this is what best practice is, especially when we talk about tech and innovation. Every single time we talk about those two things, we go to Silicon Valley, we go to Tel Aviv, we go to the rest of the world.

Best practice or context is never local, and I think for me, that's a real problem, 'cause if I'm a young kid, whether I'm an Alex, a Kyle, Leach, or a Santin, and the only examples I have for excellence in technology are in Silicon Valley, I'm never gonna start it. I'm never gonna wanna do it, because it's those guys. It's never anyone that looks like me or sounds like me or is from the same place I'm from, and so that was really important to me to kinda tell that story. - And I think as well that if you look online and a lot of people are looking online now for guidance, for learning, our examples are 99% American. I mean, you know, you think of the Grand Cordones, the Tai Lopez, I like to call him Lai Topaz, but that's just me. But they're setting all of these sort of expectations. You look at this and, hi, here's a photo of me standing behind my 17 yachts, and this is me in my garage with my 42 luxury vehicles, and then I keep thinking to myself, but what about us here in South Africa? What do we have? Who do we have that we can look to, that we can trust, that we can, 'cause I believe we've got world-class minds in this country, in Africa. I said to you, I was gonna talk to you about a little theory I have, and this is in terms of this fourth industrial revolution, which everybody says is on the horizon.

I think we need deep in it already. - Yeah, no, it's flying. - What is your, 'cause my feeling is that Africa, as a continent in South Africa, can really be at the forefront of this. What is your feeling? - You know what I'd say, to be honest with you, David, is that in a lot of sectors and spaces, we're already at the forefront. It's not could be, should be, I think some places that we already are, where we're leading or we're pretty close, and then in other spaces, I think we're positioned to get there pretty soon. So for me, I love this, there's a T-shirt brand that says, this is Africa, your time is now, and I love that brand, because I fully believe in that, that right now is the perfect time for us. We've got the youngest continent in the world, by far. Japan, conversely, is the oldest. If they don't change things, they're gonna run out of Japanese people soon, and then they have a couple generations. But we've got the youngest, and there's gonna be three billion new consumers in the next few years. That's all that shows that the African child is literally the child, the consumer, the employee of the future for the whole world. And for me, that's amazing positioning, that we need to start telling that narrative now and shifting it.

- I agree, and we are incredibly tech-savvy for the most part. What is holding us back there? I mean, we talk about this, I look to Europe, the States, et cetera, et cetera, and the accessibility to the internet. And I think the internet is the crux of this whole thing. But that kind of accessibility, and I think we're kind of on that brink now. If you're in the major centers, yes, Fire Bay, yay, I still think it's hellishly expensive. - Yeah, it is. - Compared to the rest of the world. - It definitely is. Even to the rest of the continent, our date isn't incredibly expensive. - Listen, I did some work in Mozambique a good couple of years ago, and they had cable, for want of a better word, installed. But I mean, they were getting blindingly fast internet connectivity in Mozambique when I would literally travel over the, 'cause I used to live in Nelsburg, I would travel over the border, go back home, and I was back down to my little, you know, like one megabit per second kind of thing, and I was like, how is this possible? And why are they doing this? When you talk about your book, and I mean, you cover a lot. This is not a meander, this is a very focused book. - Thank you. - Why? Why the book?

We asked this question. - So I think for me, there's kind of a couple key things that I wanted to achieve. I think firstly, I wanted to simplify technology, 'cause a lot of people, you mentioned it earlier, 51, 52 years old, this thing's not for me. And it is, technology is merely a tool for human beings of use for their development, since the beginning of man, the first tool to make a rock and a hammer to edge some things and stone, that was technology. So I think for me is simplifying it. Secondly is contextualizing it, and saying this is what African technology looks like, and African excellence, and these are the amazing people doing it. And then to give kind of a guidebook to say, go out and do it. You know, there's a lot of buzzwords. 4IR, automation, 3D printing, artificial intelligence. A lot of people don't know what those things mean, or what they mean in relation to their own careers or jobs. And then you say robots are coming to take them. And you know, and that's not necessarily the case. And so I wanted to really educate people and say this is what these things mean. They're quite simple. You can dumb them down, literally, from all of us. And then you can kind of keep up with the pace of technology.

You can understand it. And then that's where adjacent comes from is by being next to, being closely aligned, you know. - Okay. - Yeah. - So the book, as I said, I find that for somebody who's not an author, and you say you managed to do it in four odd months of pretty intense writing, that to me is amazing. - It was not easy. - To knock out a book of this kind of value. And you know, this is a great book, and that's why I'm saving it. There's books that you fly through and you go, great read, took a couple of things out of it, loved it. And it goes onto the shelf. This one not. And I'm obsessed with books. So let's talk about this, because to me, there is nothing. And I'm a big fan, tech-wise, of my Kindle, because then I can have my security blanket of having 50 or 60 books loaded. Just in case I run out. But there's something to be said about the printed word and opening up a book and, you know. - That's the thing, is that I'm a techie at heart as well. I always have been since I've been a kid, but my bookshelf, I don't have enough bookshelves, 'cause I just need to smell the pages. I gotta turn 'em, I gotta fold 'em. And people kept sending me screenshots of them reading my book, and I see them folded and earmarked and highlighted, and I cringe, 'cause I'm like, "Ugh, it's mine!" But I appreciated the same moment.

'Cause you can't do that with your Kindle. You can't do that with the device. You can really just dive deep. And yeah, so for me, the printed physical hard copy is always gonna be amazing. - So you wrote the book. You got it done in four months, and it is. It's literally a handbook, a guidebook. It's been incredibly well-written. Where can we now get hold of this book, as we like to say, in all good bookstores? - Yeah, no, you can. (laughing) And some descents, and maybe some bands. But yeah, thankfully, I've got a great publisher in Tracy McDonald. - He's, I gotta say, a hat tip in her direction. She's absolutely brilliant. - She really is. She's quite incredible. She's a feisty woman in an industry that's dominated by others, and she's doing amazing. And I was really excited that we got to partner together. And she gave me a strict deadline, and I missed it. But the four months we got it out, and thankfully, yeah, we're in all the major bookstores, exclusive, CNA, Bargain, Coon, everywhere, and online as well, so yeah. - This is the question. On Amazon, are you on Amazon? - We're on Amazon. We're on Take-A-Lot. We're on a few other local platforms. So really, anywhere you wanna buy a book, you can probably, you can find a copy.

- It's called Take Adjacent, by the way, the Exponential Guide to Leveraging Technology for Business Success. It is a great read. And I am worried because I'm fanatical about my book. So I've actually, I've been reading this book, and if you have a look at it, it looks like it hasn't been opened, because I literally will open it, and I won't fold it the whole way home, and all my books are like that. But I mean, it's fascinating. So you've come in here. You've built this business. Where do we stand from your perspective? Maybe we should do this when we come back. Can I ask you, there should be a folder, this is unprepared, right? There should be a folder lying on your side of the table somewhere, is there? Would you mind handing that to me? Apparently people, you know, I need to do a live read, and to prove this is live, (laughing) and that there is just myself in the studio, I'm not gonna make you read the ad though, I'm not that mean. - No. (laughing) - No, no, no. - We can tag team in there. (laughing) - No, they're not gonna be out of a job with a voice like that. My special guest in studio with me, author of "Tick Adjacent, "The Exponential Guide to Leveraging "Technology for Business Success," Machampi Mutuma.

You mentioned briefly that you do quite a bit of speaking as well. - I do, I do. - So how does, okay, we'll talk at the end about how people get hold of you, but what do you talk about? Obviously it's keynotes. - Yeah, it's a lot of keynotes, workshops and trainings as well, but a lot right now, especially around the book content, around technology and what that means for different businesses. I speak a lot of universities as well. So it kind of ranges from students all the way to the kind of the C-suite and conferences as well. - All right, we'll find out how to get hold of that as well. Something you enjoy, I mean, you look like a natural behind the microphone, so I'm thinking there might be a bit more to this DJ-ing thing than you've shared with me. - No, I do enjoy it, hey? It kind of fills me up, hey? I think when you get a platform to kind of educate people, it tests your knowledge. So I really don't like the speaking engagements where I just stand up there and lecture to people. I love it when people interrupt me and ask me questions, question me and what I'm saying, because then you really get to push and really get to kind of scale and say, does this thing actually mean anything?

And that's why I've been so excited to have people dig into the book and give me their real feedback, 'cause that's when I think we get the great ideas out of it. So, yeah, I love the speaking. It's a lot to manage the different businesses and Alteviks and this as well, I do a lot of traveling, but I really do love it, man. - And Family Man as well. - I am, I am. So it's actually my son's second birthday today. (laughing) - I didn't know that part, but... And has, I mean, did Dad at least wake him up this morning with a happy birthday? - I did, I did show you. - And how did the family react to all the traveling? - You know, they've been very patient. They've been very, actually very patient. I think, you know, being an entrepreneur for so long, it's not something that they haven't been used to. Same with my wife and my two kids. I think it's the knowing that Dad's always, you know, working on something and got a particular project or client. So I think because of that, the speaking and the touring hasn't had a bigger effect, 'cause they were kind of used to it. I mean, they've got their own little system that they have when I'm not there. So when I come back, I'm the one who throws things off.

(laughing) But I try to balance it out. Hey, I don't work weekends, when I get home, I'm home. And I have busy months, and then I have down months, if you will. So we just try to balance it out. And when I can pop everybody else with me, we try to go on the road together. - So that's fantastic. Now, you met your wife whilst you were being an entrepreneur. - I did, I did. - So, 'cause I've actually saw something and I actually used it. And I said to my fiance a little while, not at the other day, a little while ago, 'cause you know when you're in the romance, the just met, the new romance day, then you want to naturally spend a lot of time. So you should. And I was like, this is as good as it's gonna get. (laughing) From here on, it's not gonna be, this is it, hey? This is the pinnacle. - Yeah, it's not getting any better. - Because you do, I think as an entrepreneur, somebody that has an entrepreneurial mindset, your brain is constantly active and work isn't work really for you. - No, it's life. - It's life, it's fun. It's something you enjoy. I mean, people often say to me, how on earth do you get up and you're sitting at your computer about two, three a.m. in the morning? I'm like, it's not work.

I wake up and my eyes open and I'm like, let's see what's happening. Let's see what I can do and what I can learn and all of those things. - It's incredibly fulfilling. - Yeah, look, there's a lot of X-rated language that comes out of my office when I'm trying to do something new. - For sure. (laughing) It's stressful. - I count a lot. You will often hear me going four, five, six. But it's an absolute passion. Now, you've got the book. - Yes. - You've got Altevex. You've got a bunch of clients. But being an entrepreneur necessitates you never sitting on your laurels. - Yeah, no, definitely. - So what else? Because you kind of glossed over other business interests. So what other business interests are there? - So I think I'm still mostly in the tech space and as Altevex, what we've tried to do for kind of annuity income and just our own passions is we've launched other businesses in the healthcare space, most recently in the tourism space, a payment system that we're launching in Zim. So we've always kind of opening other things that we invest in, invest some resources, invest some time, some money into, just to kind of scale. So the great part is that every single day is completely different, is I'm in tech and I'm speaking about tech and building tech, but I do different things every single day.

- So you mentioned a payment system. You're launching it in Zim. - Yeah. - The news today, the fuel prices, I mean, that's insane. - It's madness, that's actual madness. - One of my best friends was a farmer, tobacco farmer, in Zim many, many years ago. And listen, I'm gonna say now that is probably one of the most beautiful countries on the face of the planet, with some of the most awesome people-- - I won't argue with you there. - I have ever met. And yet for some reason, one person got to stuff it up. Let's hope that it's gonna come back because-- - It's gonna take some time. You know, when I talk about Zim, I always say I'm pessimistically hopeful, just 'cause we were taught to be over these last decades and decades. But I think the amazing thing about it is that that's where innovation thrives. 95% of payments in Zim last year were mobile payments. So it's literally a cash-free society. So other people would look at that and see that there's a real problem there in a collapsed economy. But that presented probably the only country in the world where if you wanted to launch cryptocurrency across the board, you could. Because people are already familiar with technology, people are already familiar without handling cash.

And so the uptake could be overnight, literally, 'cause it's a cash-free society. So I think it's about shifting our perspective and how we look at these African problems and switch them into African opportunities. And Zim excites me and frustrates me at the same time. - I think you're not alone in that. I mean, this friend of mine now lives, they tried New Zealand. And he nearly died there. He literally is saying, "I'm an African dude. "I cannot do this." And it comes back and to this day, he still gets misty-eyed and everything about Zim and about the life there. And I'll tell you, it was. It was an absolutely, just walking around and the people were so friendly. And I'll be honest, I've been a committed carnivore, some of the best steak I've ever eaten in my life anyway. Zim barbarian beef. - That's true. - Zim barbarian beef, end of story, okay. So now we've gushed a bit about that. You mentioned tourism? - Yes, also in Zim and launching in Rwanda as well. We've got a platform called Wonderful Zim. Zimbabwe, Wonderful Rwanda. It's kind of underneath the Wonderful Africa umbrella. And just kind of a local version of the Airbnb's, thebookings.com and places that don't have the uptake.

And we're seeing a tremendous rise 'cause even though Zim is struggling right now, tourism is one of the growing industries. So we're trying to give all those local tourism providers an opportunity to kind of show their brand out there to the rest of the world. - 'Cause as I said, I mean, I've been there, I'm a big fan. So, you know, if there was an opportunity for me to go back and do some traveling in tourism, I would. And you know what, a lot of people like, you know, we live in Zim, Zimbabwe, oh, violence, oh, bad infrastructure. It's not, even despite certain people's best attempts, it's not. And the people, the heart has remained the same. - It really is. And it really is one of the safest places. I mean, in Zim right now, if your house gets robbed or some petty theft, the police will have to scramble to go find a gun to go investigate. 'Cause there's not a lot of violence. You can walk around in the middle of the night, you know, or early in the morning and feel safe in major cities. So I think, yeah, so we really want to tell that story. So we're excited about Wonderful Zim. We launched about four months ago. We're launching Rwanda later this year. So, yeah, so these are the kind of things that I do kind of, yeah, on the side and the ecosystem of businesses that we run.

(laughing) - I'm going to say I'm blown away, I'm blown away. So, so what, what next? Where, where, what is your vision? Where are you going to? - You know, it's a, that's a good question. And I'm glad you didn't say, what's, what's the next book? And when are you writing it? 'Cause I'm going to hold off on that for a little bit longer. This one is going to hold me over for a while. - I'm going to market this one for a long time. - For a while. Give me, give me a while. You know, let it seep in. But I think for me is I really, I really want to focus on the rest of Africa for a while. I think there's so many opportunities there. So I'd like to continue investing, continue scaling businesses and creating businesses that are kind of pan-African. Altavix will always exist as our core and the thing that grows the brand and facilitates all of this. But I'd like to continue launching businesses in Zim and Rwanda and Ghana and Nigeria. Because I think, you know, one thing I don't like about entrepreneurship, particularly in South Africa, is we're very siloed. We're a Joburg business or Pretoria business, Cape Town business. We don't think about national or much less what can we do on the rest of the continent?

And there's so many things that you could just replicate elsewhere on the continent 'cause they have the same struggles. So that's really the focus for me right now. - I work with a friend of mine and he owns a company called the Sales Institute. - Yes. - So a lot of sales training. - Right, right, right. - I've just launched something called the Persuasion Academy which is all about persuasive speaking. - Yes. - And I must tell you the most fun I've had and the most receptive people has been in Africa. A couple of years ago, I was in Zambia. And what a beautiful, what beautiful people. And they were like, "South African, pull in. "Come, sit down." And you know, what do you have to share? We want to learn. And I think we lack a little bit of that in this country. We're kind of a little bit, yeah. - True, true, yeah. - But up into Africa, I would love it. You know, I may get divorced before I get married again, but I mean, if I could spend time traveling up into Africa, I'd be the happiest person around. - It's really incredible, hey? And there's so many opportunities. You know, South Africa has a lot of amazing things, especially in tech, but Kenya, Rwanda, Morocco, Ghana, they're places that are just completely on the rise.

Ethiopia, and it's just, so I think it's just like breaking down those walls of what's amazing things that are happening. 'Cause we already, we talk a lot of stories about local or Nigeria, but there's so many other pockets of excellence that I just want to expose. So I think that's what I'm really focused on, is that, you know, continue to build our footprint here, but then expanding across the nations. - Well, you know what, we're here. I'm not planning on going anyway. Tune in terms of the podcast and the radio shows. I'd love to hear more of your successes, because that's what we need, in my opinion, as South Africans, we need to be able to stand up, be proud of ourselves, be proud of ourselves as Africans. And as soon as we drop the labels and the fear, you know, because this is one of the things. And I actually chatted to somebody about it the other day, and they're like, da-da-da, oh, is that a black person? I'm like, does it matter? Do we have to, it's a person, we're Africans. And yeah, we've had, across Africa and inside Africa, we've had crappy terms. There's no ways we can shove it under the table and go, yay, 94 came, it all disappeared, all the pain and suffering and hurt.

No, but unless we talk about it and engage, and this is the thing that I've seen with people, there's so much fear. Still, to this day. - There is, on all sides. - And on all sides, you know? And we need to kind of get together and do it. And I believe this whole tech internet thing and yeah, to a degree, hashtag, I'm staying, maybe. It's a way for people to connect. - Yeah, no, it is. And tech facilitates that, and it grows at scale, at rapid scale, you know? And I think that's the amazing opportunity, is that more than ever, we're more connected, and we're gonna continue to be more and more connected. You know, imagine 10 years ago trying to do business or trying to do this show and get the reach that you get. You know, it would have been impossible. It would have been incredibly expensive. And now, everyone can kind of consume that message and those insights, and to me, that's priceless. And so, that's what I'm looking forward to. - Well, I was saying to somebody the other day, you know, I'd love to be able to teach South Africans about podcasting, because a lot of them still think it's this massively complicated thing. It takes time, there's no mistaking it, okay? It does take time.

But everybody can do it. And then I see guys in the States going, we're gonna teach you how to be podcasting. (laughing) - To do that, no, well, there's a guy over there, you may even have heard of the company I interviewed a while ago, the guy by the name of Steve Olscher. He actually owns liquor.com in the States. And he does this whole profit from podcasting training, which, for a mere few thousand US dollars, he will show you what I could show you for, you know, convert that into reigns for a whole lot less. I would love to be able to do those kind of things. - So why not? - So, well, we're gonna talk. We're gonna talk. - That's my challenge too. - We're gonna talk. My question, one of the last ones before I let you go, this, ah, it's flown by again. - It certainly has. - One thing about Mishambi that people don't really know. I mean, we got the public persona, but tell me one thing that people don't know. - Wow. - Do you have a secret desire, a secret passion? Are you, you know, maybe into stamp collecting, something like that? Do they still even have that? - I don't even know. How much is a stamp? - In the old days, philately, philately was a thing. I don't know. - I don't even know how much a stamp is.

- I don't know. You know what, I'm, despite the public persona and the radio and the speaking, I'm a very private guy, hey? I hate taking pictures. I hate speaking. I actually hate it. Before every talk, I'm hoping that there's an active gun. I close it down, the conference organizer's gonna tell me, you know what, the lights are all out. There's a flood, there's something. We're not gonna be able to do it. - And yet, when you get into it, it just-- - And then, it's just like here, you know, as soon as the first joke, the introduction's out there, then it feels like I've never left. - But for me as well, people often ask me, they go, it sounds so natural. You've been in this for so many years, and I'm like, before every single show, I still have butterflies the size of vultures. - Even me, I was like, I was running behind trying to get here on time, and I was like, but what if I don't? What if I don't make it? Will it be that bad? It's okay, it'll be fine, you know? - Could I just turn around now and blame the truth? I thought that, and it's my show. - So yeah, that's what people don't realize, hey, is that you're in it, and I think that sums up entrepreneurship, even, you know? People think that you're in it, and you've been in it so long that you've got it all figured out, that you love every moment, it's glamorous, and it's not like that, you know?

Some days, it sucks. Some days, it's hard to get out of bed. Some days, it's not easy to, you know, put on the face and the blazer. - Yeah, well, listen, you heard me saying I'd love to do more work up in to Africa, but, and everybody goes, you get to travel here, you get to do this, you're flying around. You know what? Oh, dude, there's no place like home, and waking up in yet another hotel room. There's no romance, and no-- - It's not glamorous, hey? - No glamour in that. - It's not glamorous, and at least we've got Airbnb now, and you get to wake up in a bed, or at least a home, and not a hotel, 'cause the hotel, I can't do anymore, hey? But still, man, I travel every other week. I mean, I was in Cape Town last week, I've got four more trips this month, and I'm not excited about it. You know, you get to do work, get to meet people, but I love being in my own bed, hey? - Yeah, well, it's the family, the kids, the whole life. So you managed to dodge the one thing that we don't know very well, so congratulations, then. Frustrated DJ. - It's whatever a mystery is. - You know what, I did actually have a podcast about four years ago, you know? Josie Mabanenga, online radio, by entrepreneurship and business, and so I've told myself next year, I'm getting back onto the podcast.

- I think it'd be brilliant. - I miss it, I love this, I'm envious of you. - It's to get to do it, I mean, once we're there, we find, but I mean, you know, it's the most amazing thing, 'cause this podcast is now the second, not second, second iteration, 'cause the first one, I did 10, and I went, right, come, adoring fans. And everybody went, so I gave up, and then my fragile ego was bruised, and then this time around, when I started at the beginning of the year, I was like, okay, this is it now, I'm going full out for this, this is what I'm doing, this is what the focus is, and it is, it's to gain that momentum is frustratingly slow. I wish I could, as all the people that you see on those adverts that we get on the internet, 10X your income, I wish I could, 10X. I always, I don't know where 10X came from, I always used to think of me 10 times, but apparently 10X is the thing. But, you know, I'd love to be able to expand my reach, but this is an organic thing. So do it, do it. - I will, man, I will. - Okay, that's my challenge to you. I'm gonna come back, you're gonna come back, and I'm gonna talk to you about your podcast. We're not allowed to talk about future books, because I totally agree with you there.

- Sorry, Tracy. - Not yet. - Maybe we should get Tracy in here. - I think we should, hey? She's got an amazing story, and she's kicking butt. - I think we should. Tracy, you may not be listening to this now, but you're gonna be forced to, because I'm gonna send you the podcast link, and we're gonna talk about, if somebody wants to get hold of you, where is the best place? - Social media, hey? It's just Mushambi Mutuma on every platform, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter. My website, it's just Mushambi Mutuma.co. That's where I am. That's the easiest way. - I'm gonna have to link up with you on LinkedIn. - Definitely. I learned recently I poo-pooed LinkedIn for a very long time, as I did with a lot of tech. - It's an amazing platform, hey? - And suddenly, yeah, my eyes were opened. - Yeah, I slept on it for a long time, and I've got almost 14,000 connections there. It's a tremendous platform. It's a brilliant place, a brilliant place to meet and connect with people and share value. That's what I like. - And real value, not just selling things, but-- - Brilliant, so that's where they can do it. The book is called "Tech Adjacent, "The Exponential Guard to Leveraging Technology "for Business Success." Mushambi Mutuma, thank you so much.

We wish you all the best, and definitely we're gonna get you back here. We're gonna be talking whatever is your next. We'll talk about that. Hopefully there's a podcast in there as well. Thank you for braving the traffic and taking the time out. - I appreciate it. - I really, really do appreciate it. - Thank you so much. - Well, that wraps it up for me for tonight. I was hoping I would have a second guest, but no luck at this stage. No luck in terms of a second guest, which will give the other guys a bit of time. We've got some great guests coming up in the next couple of weeks, so I'll let you know more about that. So until we see you again, we'll speak to you again. For me, it'll be tomorrow morning. Take care of yourselves, one more thing. Thank you for listening.