Rita Zwane — Author, Entrepreneur, Mother, Inspiration

Well, she's managed to catch her breath and she's sitting down. I am so happy to welcome you into studio. Rita Zwane, do we call you Rita? Or like everybody else just calls you Mazwane? - They call me Rita and some call me Mazwane. Mostly it's Rita. - Okay, we'll go with Rita for today. - But I like Mazwane. - Do you? - I rather use Mazwane. (laughing) - Now, you've just released a book recently. It's called Conquering the Poverty of the Mind. Mazwane's story, From Shipping Container to Busy Corner, The Entrepreneurial Journey of the Shisanjama Pioneer. And I got the book. I get a lot of books. I interview a lot of authors. And I thought, this looks good. It's gonna be interesting. And I was hooked. I was, what a story. What a story. I mean, this journey has taken you a good few years, hasn't it? - It has, it has. It has taken me 20 years. - 20 years. But it started off in a little town outside of Freiheit, I believe. Well, a little, what did we call it? A township? - Yes, yes, more of a village. - A village? - Yes, in Engorche. - But it's a beautiful part of the world. And the pictures that you draw with your words of the sun rising up over the valleys in the traditional Zulu huts, because you are, you are a proudly Zulu woman.

- Of course. - You know? And I'd been practicing my Zulu, but it wasn't good enough to say hello properly. Not properly. (speaking in foreign language) I can do that, okay? And then after which it becomes very much (speaking in foreign language) I do try, but I don't always get a try. - You'll get there. - But from a very, very early age, and I must tell you, your story is a story of perseverance. It's a story of triumph. But it's also a story of loss, quite a lot of loss. And I think you lost your dad when you weren't even born yet. And you lost your dad. And then your mom, I mean, she must have been a superwoman, six kids, and she just managed to keep you guys all going

and started off that entrepreneurial sort of spirit in you from a very early age. I mean, you were selling stuff from what, at the age of five or something? - So it's already at five. - Uh-huh. And was that something you just knew you always wanted to do? - Well, inspired by my mother, let me say, at the age of five, five, it was as simple as a child that goes to school, come back, you know, those days, it was even more of pocket money. But I think my mom was just instilling the culture and as young as I was five, to say, you know, if you wanna go to church, because we'd go to church and that pocket suite money would use it to go to church. But obviously, you know, these days we call it, keep sweets, small stuff that you wanna buy as a child. Instead of giving me money every day or every week, I would sell pocket of sweets. And when I come back, after three days or four days, it's finished. And then she will ask me, and when I look back now, and I'm thinking that, you know, she was already instilling that culture, because she'll say, "How much have you got now?" Then I will tell her, "Hey, do you know how much I put the pocket of sweet for?" And I say, "I don't know." She tells me. Then I start counting.

She says, "Okay, how much are you left with?" If it's too rent or a rent that I'm left with, she says, "Okay, bring the other one, keep that rent. I'll go and buy another pocket of sweets." So when I look, many years later, I realized that, actually, my mom knew hustling before we even know the word called hustling. And I say those were original hustlers, our parents. - But that is something that, I don't know, I can't put my finger on it, but the concept of hustling, and specifically sort of township lifestyle, it is this vibrancy, this energy. I interviewed last year a gentleman by the name of G.G. Elcock, and he wrote a book, I don't know if you know G.G. - I know, yeah. - Well, he wrote it, one of his books is Casanomics. And when I was talking to him, when we found out about what's happening in the townships and this vibrant economy, I mean, the rest of the country, everybody's complaining about how we're doing so badly, the government's this and that. And yet, the small businesses in the townships are growing, they're thriving, there's great economy there. And there is this spirit, and you mentioned it in the book, the spirit of Ubuntu, still alive and well, 'cause I think it became a very nice word to use, and then people kind of forgot about it.

But it's still alive and well. - Yes, in the township it is, 'cause I remember those years getting to Johannesburg of our staying in the CBD with a friend. But as soon as I got a taxi to Tambisa, when you get to the township, you just feel the vibrancy. A neighbor knows the next door neighbor. And a gate that when you want to go to the direct opposite, you don't have to go around. I mean, that spirit of Ubuntu, when one does not have salt, it's as easy as shouting, your door neighbor, can I have salt? And you just get it. And when it comes to business as well, it's more of how it starts in the township. When you look at it, it's more first of putting food on the table, like how our parents started. But it ends up becoming, it's an informal economy that has got so much opportunities. An informal economy that has grown so much. It's a type of an economy that even when investors come in, I do say, you look at the fact that it's the second economy, I call it like that, and the first economy, the first economy, those that are coming to the township. And when they get to the township, it's like there is a bridge. A bridge gets to second economy, which is township people, but the spirit of Ubuntu, I know it's 'cause I practice it myself, from visit corner.

I'm chakalaka dumpling, I can name many stuff where I could have put that money into my income and have a beautiful income statement. But that spirit of Ubuntu in the township to say, instead of me having this bread alone, let me see if I can share with others. But the township economy is big and it's growing. - I know, and to me that's the true South Africa. When you're in a place like Busy Corner, and in the old days, if we go back to the old apartheid days, you wouldn't dare, as a white person, you wouldn't dare set your foot into a township because everybody was gonna hate you. It's not like that. It's not like that these days. - Yes, not anymore, because there are opportunities, number one, and that spirit of Ubuntu as well, to say at the end of the day, we are all Africans. We are South Africans. If you wanna have a township experience or a township feel, in fact, talking about that, that's the whole reason why I established the sub-sector of Shisaniam. It was inspired by there to say, someone who stays in St. Shurion, a white person who stays in St. Shurion or in Santin, wanna get to the township and understand how the township is like and the township lifestyle. And you get to the township and you say, where is Shisaniam?

I'm no longer talking about Shisaniam as a busy corner alone, but in any township that you get to, and when you look at, you find Shisaniam, you know the kind of lifestyle that you are looking for. It's gonna be the experience. Watching people walking up and down, children passing the rowboats, going to and maybe to a center up the road, that vibrancy that is in the township, it's lively, there is life. But either than just life only, we need to be able to make money out of it. Because like we say, it's got so much opportunities. - It is it, and I think that is the true spirit of South Africa because, you know, and you spoke about it as well. You mentioned in the books, when you go to your friend's house, who worked here in Midrand and on one of the big pots and you've got the six Dalmatians that you thought were gonna eat you. But I mean, there's a lot of money and it's beautiful. There's no energy. I mean, if you look at it in predominantly white neighborhoods, you hardly even know your neighbors. You know, and I lived for quite a few years. I lived, I've only recently moved out to Pretoria East, but I lived in a complex here in Midrand. And for me, Midrand is one of the best places around because it's like this cultural melting pot.

I mean, you know, just in my little corner of my complex, there was an Indian family, there was a colored family, there was a mixed marriage families, and everybody got along. And, you know, if we were going out, if I was going out somewhere, then you just say to the neighbor, hey, I'm going out now, won't you just keep an eye on the place? Or they say, we're going away, would you go? And there was just this sense of that. And I miss that part of being in Midrand. I must be honest, I do miss that. But let's get back to your journey because you've done some pretty amazing stuff. I mean, the one thing is, if you could have seen me reading the book, you would have laughed because one of your first jobs after you'd gotten to Joburg was working at Sardi's. - Yes, in Joburg. - And I was like, what?

Sardi's, sure, that was back in the 80s, I guess, if not before. - Around '89, yeah, back in the 80s, just before '90s. - Yeah, and Sardi's, let's call it the Spadey Spade. It was a strip club. - Yes, it was a strip club. - But you didn't know that. - Imagine a young girl getting to Joburg, the first time, because from where I come from, KZ 10, when you dress, you're fully covered. But when I got there, in fact, I used to spend some time watching, like sort of, I'm employed, I'm supposed to be serving customers, but it's like, I'm shocked, did this job? People, you know, I mean, this is kind of entertainment in Joburg, you know. Yeah, but yeah, it was a strip club, and I learned from that, because three days later, of course, I got fired, I didn't share that in my book. (laughing) I didn't know how to mix the drinks. - But that was the other thing, I mean, the whole interview process, you walked in there expecting an interview, and they said, you're hired, you're gonna be a waitress. And people started asking you, I mean, you mentioned a couple of wines in that book, I didn't even know what they were, so good luck, you know, good luck figuring that out. So then you left that, and then when you got to Tambisa, you were working for another company, what company were you working for?

- Well, when I got to Tambisa, besides the fact that it was a site, when I got fired, it started, you know, I worked at a hairdresser, but when I got to Tambisa, I was working, even though the company, I don't remember as well, but it was a bandage company, where I was working, and then I got to Tambisa, 'cause a friend had brought me there. I had to catch a taxi from now Tambisa, 'cause it was simpler in Jobeg, and the salary I was getting at the time, I think it was about 120 a week. - That was for transport. - 120, a salary, not a salary, a week, it was about 120, so I had to get, you know, transport out of that, eat, and probably I was left with a potato render, 20 rent, but one thing that kept me going, I knew in my heart and in my mind that I hated cycling, I hated it with passion. I would, it was a situation where I would rather be left with 20 rent, but wake up in the morning, smell fresh air, get into a taxi, you know, like everybody else, meet people, I could meet opportunities along the way. Obviously, few months later, and that company didn't work, and they closed as well, so I had to come back and stay at home, but whilst I was staying at home, I was looking around me, like I say, I hated cycling.

So the ladies I was staying with was actually working at Escom. I don't know how to say much because people are still gonna read the book, but I do wanna share the fact that whilst I was sitting at home, as I was cleaning her house, opening her wardrobe, you know, trying, 'cause I didn't wanna be a freeloader, and then I saw that she had beautiful clothes and she was wearing a uniform at Escom. I thought, shit, this is the opportunity. This is what my mom taught me. I'm gonna ask her to give me some of the clothes that she's not wearing so that I can go and sell them over the weekend, and I did at Oakmore station. - This is, you see, this is what I found so amazing, and I mean, in the middle of all of this, she managed to study. I mean, you went to Kelly Greenoak, Secretarial College as well. - Yes, yes, 'cause where, that's the thing, you know, there's another second job within those few years when I was in Jobay, where the company closed down again, and there they had, you know, wanted to give me an opportunity to go in and to get, in fact, to promote me, but just before that happened, the company closed. So I was ending, if I'm not making mistakes, like 820 there, so they gave me three times the amount, and I had to think long and hard, what was I going to do with this 820 and 20 times three that I was giving as a package?

So I took a decision to say, you know what, let me just go and do secretarial courses and computer courses. This could open doors for me. I could have taken that money, you know, and I was a young girl. I'm going by beautiful shoes, you know, hairstyle, but I took a decision to say I must invest. - And a single mom at that stage as well. - Yes. - So there was a lot of stuff. My special guest in studio this evening, author of "Conquering the Poverty of the Mind," Marzwane's story, it is Rita Zwane. We'll be back chatting some more to Rita. Fascinating, I tell you what, you gotta get this book. We'll tell you where you can get it in just a bit. My special guest in studio, Rita Zwane. Marzwane, "Conquering the Poverty of the Mind." It is such an inspiring story. And I don't want to give away too much in the book because I promise you there's laughter, there's tears, there's struggle. It's just a great, great read. And I read a lot. I sort of read about two, three books a week easily. And I generally have one over here that I'm reading, one on the Kindle I'm reading. This one I couldn't put down. I was absolutely fascinated by it.

But let's move on to, to, to how you started.

Chissanyama Busy Corner, because you're now in Tembisa, you're working, you've got a full-time job, but you notice that just down the road, there's a butchery, but it's in a container. Tell me about that. - Yes, I was working in the street, down the streets of Tembisa at the time, trying to find the kind of business that I can operate. And remember at that time, I share this a lot. I already had three jobs. I had a full-time job as a receptionist where I was working. My car was contracted in a Korea company. And in the evening, so during the day, I would catch a taxi to go to work because the driver would then take my car that had employed who was working in a Korea company because I already had a small city corporate at that time. And the third one in the evening, then I would work as a restaurant. So as I was working down the streets of Tembisa, that particular weekend, thinking that in my mind, I've always known, you know, I feel that I wanna be a businesswoman, I wanna run some kind of a business someday. So as I was looking, I came across that container. And when I saw the container, I went inside and I asked the lady that was working there to say, "Okay, what are you selling here?" It was more of a convenient shop at the time, a convenient puchare.

And they told me where the owners were. That Monday, I gave them a call in the morning to say to them, "Look, I wanna see you, the accurate." When I got there in the afternoon from work, by the way, from my full-time work, and I was wearing my high heels and stockings. And when I told them that, you know, I wanna start a business around a pie, the container, they looked at me and I think they just could not be, they still tell me now, 'cause we still talk to them. They are good friends of mine. And they were saying, "We remember that very first day, "Rita, when you walked in your high heels, "we thought, is this girl gonna make it in the township, "under the sun, when she's coming from work, "it's a pretty with icons, is she gonna make it?" But then they gave me a chance, and I got a container from them. And the money that they wanted, obviously, I didn't have. - That's part of the book that's fascinating. Let's not tell that whole story, but suffice to say, they wanted a certain amount. Rita had another idea. And you managed to sell on that idea, which was amazing. You gotta read the book to find out about it. But now you get your container. And now you've gotta start selling all your bits and pieces.

- Yes, now I've got the container. In fact, this was just started in Ivar Park. The one that many people know busy corner that is in April, it was five years later. But it started in 1997, you know, three years after a democracy. And that was the time when opportunities were there, you know, and I grabbed the opportunity as well. But it was on the side of the road in Ivar Park, you know. And then I got the container, obviously, that was the fourth week. So I had to leave the other one. And lastly, I left, two years later, I left my full-time job to focus solely on the business, 'cause I could see it was doing well. I could see, I focused solely on the business for one reason, because what I was getting was more like two times my a month, two times my salary. And then I realized that, you know what, I can just resign from my full-time work and start focusing on the container. And that was the best decision I made for myself. - But now, from the container, you were selling, 'cause the deal was you would get, and I'm gonna mention it, it was two brothers. - Yes, Texera brothers. - The Texera brothers, who became friends and mentors of you. - Yes, yes. - But what were you selling from there?

Because the deal was you get the container, but you have to buy the meat from them. - Yes, inside the container there was a fridge, there was a scale, because they had also packaged it. But it was, like I say, it was more like a convenient pucari for them. And when I first was selling from that container, for the first two years, obviously I was selling meat, and it was a gas gorilla as well, not amalache, not coals. I had a gas gorilla. So I was focusing, and the market was more in Ivor Park, because Ivor Park and also Ibiza. In fact, let me talk about Ivor Park more. Why I got the container and put it there, because there was even no electricity at the time. Loads were still not even. The proper infrastructures wasn't gonna stop it. - I remember when Ebony Park and Ivory, it says Ebony Park, Ivory Park, when they kicked off, it was, there was very little infrastructure there. - So without that infrastructure, without electricity, that means you can't keep meat in your house, because then you need to have a fridge. So then it was more of in the afternoon, number one, when someone wants to cook and just buy meat and go and cook at home. Number two, if you don't feel like cooking, then it was an option.

The option was, buy meat, maybe make up at home, and then you know that instead of getting your fried chicken, from the taxi rank, you would rather, you know at the corner in Ivor Park, there is something, there is a product that is beginning to talk to the kind of dishes that we love, the kind of dishes that we eat. It wasn't even shisanyama at the time, it was more like pie and pie. Yeah, so from that point, two years later, I started going back, realizing that you know what, I've worked as a restaurant, and what did I learn from there? Even at the Egyptian restaurant, they were palatinsas. First the societies, which was a strip club, and then the other one, this was Egyptian restaurant palatinsas. And then I saw that, in fact, what these people were selling was not food, it was the experience. You know, people that are coming from, yes, coming, it's an Egyptian restaurant, and there are many people that were, Egyptians that were in the country, and that, you know, one that feeling of home. And it was at that point that I said to myself, this is an opportunity, I've been in Jobek for this long now, I do feel like it's in Wuputu sometimes, I do feel like home. What is it out of this convenient shop that is in a container, that I can change, and make it more like an experience.

It's the time that the sub-sector of Shisan Yama was started, because when I did that, I went to Denver. I said, it can't be just about food. When I moved, when I bought another container, two containers, and put them in the busy corner, where most people know, most people know busy corner. - Which wasn't busy corner then. - Which was in busy corner at the time. - Wasn't that busy. - But what influenced me to go to Denver and get, you know, the traditional dentas, because I now wanted to create this African experience. It was at that time that I was sitting, even in the middle of the night, crafting this thing in my head. What is it that I can offer, either than just fast food, which was by and by at the time. That's when busy corner started. That's when, again, you know, the concept of sub-sector of Shisan Yama started, and then it exploded, because everybody else, when they saw it, they said, this is one concept in food and beverage industry that talks to our lifestyle, our identity, where we can celebrate our culture and heritage, and create great memories. - And it isn't, and it's simple food a lot of the time, but very elegant and tasty, and it's soul food, I guess, is a term that gets used a lot, but it is, it's comfort food, you know, it makes you feel like you're back at home, and yeah, meat done on the gas cooler, not so good, not so good.

- Anyway, when we come back, I want to chat to you about the growth, and then, 'cause you haven't just focused on yourself and your family. You've gone out there, and you mentioned this earlier, your spirit of Ubuntu, and we come back, I want to have a chat about that a bit, and then wrap up, and we'll tell you where you can get Rita's book, but you've got to do yourself a favor, man. If you're in and around the area of Midland, or in the area of our transmission, or if you're listening anywhere else in the country, and you get a chance, do yourself a favor. It is an experience of note. It's just the vibrancy, the sights, the sounds, the colors, the smells, the taste, brilliant. When we come back, we'll wrap up with Rita. Not even starting to burn out, but burning strong, my special guest in studio, Mozwane, conquering the poverty of the mind. It is Mozwane's story. You should be able to get this online. I think there's a digital version of it available, but at most good bookshops. Are you selling this at Busy Corner? - Yes, we're selling. That's at Busy Corner. We're selling it in Midland as well, 'cause there's another Shisanyama we've opened in Midland. - I heard, I was gonna ask you, is it now open?

- It's opened. - But it's more for like the millennials and everything. People are a bit unsure about stuff. Where about is it here in Midland? - It's in Midland, it's China, China. - Oh yes, yeah. - It's there. - Okay. - Yeah, we opened in September last year. So you do find the book there as well. And you also find in exclusive books. - Yeah? - Yeah. - And amazon.com, you also find it there. - Do yourself a favor. Get hold of this book. It is brilliant. It's a great read. It's an amazing story. And it's one of those when you put it down at the end of it, you go, you know what? That's why I love this country. So well done to you, Mazwani. I think you've done an amazing, amazing thing. Let's wrap up by saying you've now got the container. You've started this idea. And as we said before we went into the ad, it exploded. But that wasn't enough for you because you looked around you and you saw people around you and you thought, how can I help them benefit as well? Tell me a bit about that. - Well, that's packaging with the car wash. That's Mazwani again, that's kind of a package. 'Cause as people come in driving, like we were talking earlier, their cars, and you look at this kind of cars that we're driving still when I was in the container, I could see that, you know what, how else can we keep customers that are coming in when they are finished buying meat?

And then I put in the Shisaniyama. Obviously today when you see Shisaniyama is the car wash, then it must be a hand beauty saloon, which is more of a lifestyle. But with Chaka Laka, I also made a conscious decision. Those days, what was popular was Acha. And you'd buy Acha in five liter or 10 liters. - Yes, yes. - And my decision I took back then, I am not going to buy five liters and 10 liters. Instead, I will get other women around the community, show them how to make Chaka Laka, and then let them supply, show them how to make dumpling, and then let them supply. Again, I could have decided to sell pop and bread rolls, but then I thought bread rolls is gonna benefit big companies. - Yeah, and it's not as satisfying as pop. - Yes, it's satisfying as pop. And those that want an option, they would go for bread rolls. But then I decided never, I'm not putting bread rolls yet. We will sell dumpling, because when I sell dumpling, I will get other women again around the same community, show them how to make dumpling, and then they supply must one. And if you look at many Shisanyamas, obviously you find that the meat goes with either pop or dumpling. But when I packaged that is because I wanted to empower others.

Either than that, over the years, what I then did, I was looking for other opportunities, and I started buying properties. Because one thing I've always known, when I read other books, because I've been reading books, I wanted to know how successful people think, and how to invest money. When I bought those properties, when in business Shisanyama grow, we knew it was a case of just putting a structure, but I'm not worried much about the actual property. And yes, and some of them we've developed, and some we're still going to develop. But I grew in a sense that I didn't wanna just focus on food and beverage. Well, I did take a chance somewhere, because I went into tracking as well. But that failed. It's not in my book, but it failed. - But I mean, it's the same as your courier company. I mean, just, I think the costs of doing something like that, the taxi business as well. The costs of doing that kind of business, it's hectic. I mean, it costs a lot of money. Another interesting part is your battle to get financing. But by the time somebody wanted to give you financing, you'd saved up enough of your own money anyway. - Yes. - And you were like, nah. - And talking about finance, this was the thing with Shisanyama.

'Cause when you go to the bank, it's in my book as well. I would go to the banks, I would go to some government institution as well. And when I talk about Shisanyama, they were saying, what is it that she's talking about? 'Cause I used different sizes. It's either it's your peccas or your fried chickens. But when I go to the bank and say, those are some of the challenges I explained in my book, and say, it is Shisanyama that I wanna grow and I've already established it. And it was quite a challenge to convince them and make them understand what products are you talking about? By the time they came back, of course, some of them, I had said, you know what? I've already put the building and it's done. - Yeah, I know, that was the amazing part. But I gotta ask you, because when you say that you taught people to make the takalaka, 'cause there's a way that people from KZN make takalaka, which is not the same way as what you, so that is your secret. Because your takalaka definitely does taste different. - Yes, you know, like, okay. I wonder how you know that, but it's true. From KZN to make takalaka, it takes two hours. And when we make takalaka here, you actually have to invest like sort of half a day.

Starting by preparing, cooking the takalaka to make sure it's properly cooked. It's six to seven hours. And then you can package it the following morning. So yes, there is a difference. And the reason for that is that things like otomato, you can't put it, because that is not gonna last long. But I taught them how to make takalaka. I'm sure you're asking a question. How do you know that? Because we are coming from KZN. - I've spent some time there. (laughing) But you've done absolutely amazing stuff. The book is available. Busy Corner is a huge success. You've got the second one here. Where to next for Marzwani? What's next for you? - Okay, Marzwani, I've started a foundation. I registered the foundation. I wanted to launch it last year, but it's gonna be the same. The reason for this foundation is to, I want the foundation to focus on entrepreneurship and early childhood development. You know, how I grew and how I became a business woman, I know that your surrounding influences you. And there are people that have helped me, guiding me and mentoring me. I used to get lots of young people coming to me to Busy Corner. You know, just wanting guidance. And many of them have run successful businesses.

And one of the person who encouraged me to open a foundation says, "Marzwani, I can't come back to you. "I don't know how to thank you, "but should you start a foundation, "we will be able to say, create more of Marzwani, "create more of us, people that you've helped." So it is the foundation, number one. Number two, developing the properties that we've bought. One of the properties is right across the Busy Corner. We're gonna be putting a filling station in the Motor City today. So that's Marzwani's focus from now on. - I think it's wonderful stuff. One of the ladies that I interviewed a while ago, she is the CEO of a company called Future Proof SA. Her name is Lisa Illingworth. And she also does entrepreneurship in schools and developmental stuff. Maybe I should put you guys in touch. I think you can do some wonderful stuff. Richard Zwani, Marzwani, thank you so much. And I know you had a hectic day today and you were running around and driving and being all over the place. Thank you for making it in. And I wish you all the best. Go from strength to strength. And I'm hoping I'm gonna find some time so I can pop in and have some lunch at Busy Corner one of these days. - It's a pleasure and thank you for inviting me, Dave.

- Absolutely wonderful. There we go, that's my special guest, Richard Zwani. I should have brought myself some takeaways for tonight or something because next up, Sarah Gray. And Sarah Gray creates flavors for foods. So we're gonna be chatting to Sarah and finding out all about what she does.