Dr Mclean Sibanda — Entrepreneur, Innovator, Scholar, Author

Once again it is what's involved. So good to have you along with us. I love, well I love the show obviously, I love the fact that you spend some time and you give me your time to listen to the show but what I enjoy most is some of the guests that I have on the show and the fact that I get to meet and interact with such amazing people. One such person tonight and I must say when I first read a little bit of his CV I felt more than a little intimidated but he promises that you'll be kind to me. Who am I talking about? I'm talking about Dr McLean Sabanda, LLD, LLM, Commercial Law, LLB, MSc Engineering, BSc Engineering and I think the list could go on but over and above that he is an author and a hell of a guy. McLean welcome to the show. Thank you very much David and thanks for having me on your show and also good day to your listeners. Wonderful stuff. Now before we dive in to the book this is your first book that you've written, a fascinating book indeed it's called Nuts and Bolts Strengthening Africa's Innovation and Entrepreneurship Ecosystems which sounds like a lot but we're going to break it down during the course of our chat but before we get there McLean tell me a little bit about yourself.

You know born where you grew up where what did you do that led you to the point where you decided to write a book. Yeah so David I was born in Wulawa in Zimbabwe. I went to a government school and went to a high school in a school called Plumchee and then I was fortunate to get a scholarship to attend Vets University to study for an engineering degree raised by grandparents who were quite entrepreneurial and a mother that was also very you know entrepreneurial and I guess inspired me to see that entrepreneurship has got a future and then studied engineering at Vets sponsored by De Beers and worked for De Beers Industrial Diamonds after completing my master's degree and I loved it. First introduction into innovation and intellectual property also took place at De Beers and from De Beers you know went on to join items and train as a patent attorney and I was also fortunate to be one of the first black African patent attorneys in the country and then went on onto a journey 15 year journey in innovation in the public sector in South Africa. Wow and you've I mean you mentioned De Beers but I mean you've worked at some some pretty impressive places. Currently where are you and what are you doing currently?

Yeah so currently I'm with a great company called the Big End Group so a managing director of Big End Global Limited which is a vehicle that we use for expansion into the rest of Africa. So Big End is an infrastructure development specialist. We look at closing the gap in terms of the infrastructure deficit in Africa in various sectors water sanitation, energy, real estate, health care, development advisory impact and agriculture and as well as transport. Wow okay also if I'm not mistaken you were the CEO of the Innovation Hub as well weren't you? Yes that's actually quite interesting. I mean my office at at Big End is located at the Innovation Hub so for seven and a half years I was you know privileged to be the CEO of the Innovation Hub to lead its turnaround and in essence a huge part of the book talks about that turnaround what we did why we did what we did and how can some of these things be scalable to the rest of the continent and also other developing countries. Fantastic one of the things that you say and and to me this this rang true and I suddenly felt this intense sense of pride for being an African. You said that the future of Africa is bright. Innovation and not aid is the answer and I just think that that you hit the nail on the head there because we live in a country on a continent that I believe is full of untapped potential and I believe we have the ability to become amongst the best in the world at what we do. Is this a statement you'd agree with? Absolutely I don't think that we have the ability to become you know the best. We are the best and I think we see it in terms of you know how Africans have been able to to survive some of the most pressing challenges that they have faced and in essence when we also look at the demographics there is no other continent that is well positioned to really demonstrate to the rest of the world that we are the best.

We have exported a lot of innovations into the into the world. We have a youthful population as a continent whereas the rest of the world is aging. We also have demonstrated our ability to

in essence embrace technology if one looks at the penetration of mobile technology throughout the continent amongst the fastest or highest adoption rates throughout the world and indeed Africa in essence needs to now really position itself and take its rightful place amongst leaders in the world. I would agree with you 100% there because you know yes we have in our country and throughout Africa we've been through some very very trying times and very horrific times in some cases but I for one am tired of being seen as that cousin that always embarrasses you at the party and hearing you know continued references to this day about Africa being the dark continent third world countries etc etc so I am so glad there's a voice that is speaking out at the moment. Miquel, let me ask you this question though why the book what led you to write a book?

So one of the things that has occurred to me is that we don't tell enough of our own stories and I think there's a saying that until the lion is able to tell its story the stories of the hunt will always glorify the hunter and wherever it goes throughout the continent and I've been fortunate to travel both the length and breadth of the continent mostly innovation related or looking at infrastructure projects or intellectual property I get amazed by the potential in some of the countries but also the hunger and thirst for knowledge and entrepreneurship amongst our youth and having completed seven and a half years at the Innovation Hub I look back and I realize that there is actually amazing stories of hope amazing stories of real success and also stories that demonstrate that Africa has what it takes to be you know the best in the you know in the world and so nuts and bolts in essence captures stories of real people and these are entrepreneurs ecosystem builders as well as other people that I've been privileged to walk the path with and it's really stories to inspire but also stories to help other people that are embarking on this journey to understand the ecosystem components to understand the challenges that entrepreneurs face but also for leaders to actually understand that when leading a transition there will always be challenges and how did someone like me navigate some of those challenges fantastic stuff my special guest is McLean Sibunda author of a fantastic book it's called nuts and bolts strengthening Africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems we'll be back with more from McLean this is what's involved it's so good to have you along with us and we're back what's involved it is my special guest is McLean Sibunda author of nuts and bolts strengthening Africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems now when you when you look at that that bar line there my first response was oh goodness this is going to be a very academic book and I was pleasantly surprised because it's it's not an academic book as you said it's it's a book that has stories and there's stories of hope but let's dive into to some of the book McLean because you know you played as you said quite a quite a role in this turnaround of the innovation hub so let's start there talk to me about the developing of this this innovation hub and the repositioning of it yeah so David the the the innovation hub is an agency of the Hauteng government and it was conceived as part of the what we called at the time the blue IQ set of projects in 2005 they opened up the doors having been incubated at the CSIR just across the road the location is a perfect location because it is located right between the CSIR the largest research institution in Africa and also the University of Pretoria one of the top five universities in the in in the country 2011 2010 I was approached to say that we're looking for a CEO to reposition it and to focus on innovation at the time I was the group executive for commercialization at the technology innovation agency and I put up my hand and I was hired and I started my first day in February 2011 with about 22 staff and none of them had assigned the technology background and so I realized that was the first challenge if one was going to embark on an innovation journey and so fast forward 90 days later we had a strategy approved by the board we're going to build capacity recruit subject matter experts and reposition the innovation hub and broaden it into also tackling various sectors that were of importance not only to Hauteng but to South Africa and the continent seven and a half years later the innovation hub you know grew to have sector specialists in green economy in bioeconomy as well as ICT we had also broadened to go into the townships and enhance embrace a broader definition of innovation which is inclusive and there is a whole range of competitions that have been established and also partnerships and over 400 entrepreneurs were being incubated per year at the time that I left in 2018.

Wow okay but now answer me this question because it's something and a couple of people I've spoken to have come back and said a very similar thing when you when you hear about this innovation hub you know this developing of innovation and entrepreneurial culture a lot of people seem to be scared by this and put off by this and oh no no no you know I just have a little idea why would I go there and you know it's sort of it's almost as though you imagine that there's going to be a huge amount of bureaucracy is that the case? David you know sadly that is a case in in some of the incubators and also some of the structures that have been set up in essence to assist entrepreneurs and in the book a dedicated chapter to looking at these structures such as science parks and incubators and I think throughout the book perhaps I lend my voice to what in essence should be an approach of anyone that is working at one of these you know entities that it is actually a privilege and an honor to be on the front line to serve budding entrepreneurs and so when we establish ECA celebs which are innovation centers that the innovation hub now runs in the townships it was really an attempt to bring innovation closer to the people that would think that you know first of all difficult to get into the innovation hub in Pretoria but secondly thinking that that was for other people and not for them and also dealing with the inculcating a culture of innovation which means that look around you find the problem start to solve the problems that you face around you and then start to innovate you know upwards so in essence I think the entrepreneurs face huge challenges and part of the book is in essence meant to empower the entrepreneurs to walk the journey of entrepreneurship with it is some cases without the you know these agencies or incubators but it is my hope that more and more of people that work at agencies such as the innovation hub TIA, NYDA, GEP and so forth will read the book and embrace this important way of thinking that we are but here to serve. How important is that concept though in terms of South Africa and in terms of of Africa in general this concept I believe of servant leadership because you know we very much and it's been something that's been entrenched in our society corporates and sort of medium and large enterprises very much have been a very autocratic top-down kind of thing you know do as I say and if you dare to think differently and ask why then you're seen as a troublemaker. How important is this servant leadership?

I think it's absolutely you know important I think the thing is that no one is complete on their own and I think if we go back to the principle of Ubuntu the African principle of Ubuntu it says that I am because you know you are and and one of the things that I've also realized is that every day we get faced with significant moments and these significant moments present themselves in various ways. It's an entrepreneur that approaches you and says I need help. How you relate to that person will also determine how other people relate to you into the future and so I think it's important for us to adopt a principle say treat others as you'd like yourself to be treated and also understand that at some point you get to a point where you would need to get to a government agency for assistance. How would you like to be treated you know yourself so very important and I think increasingly there are more and more younger leaders and also more mature leaders that I have that I encounter that I'm embracing that principle. Well that I think is some good news because you know if you look at the economic state of our country and then some of the other countries in Africa we're not we're not doing so well and you know I had my eyes opened a little while ago I'm not sure if you've come across the gentleman G.G.

Alcock and one of the books he's written is something called Carcinomics and when I was talking to him about this informal economy and this thing that's happening in and around townships I was absolutely blown away and I thought to myself but nobody's really serving these people you know and nothing is being made easier for them and often you know you might be an aspiring entrepreneur but to find hope and to find somebody that believes in you is incredibly challenging. Is this something that you know reading the book we're going to go okay yeah entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey but it doesn't need to be? Yes you know absolutely I think if one goes through the stories of people like Terrance from Akamesa there is also a great story from Tuttucoshezi Livestock Wealth. There is amazing stories of entrepreneurs from the township it's a guy called Martin you know in there and Passega who is doing amazing work in the water security you know area and also Tihani who is leading geek culture one actually then gets to see that you know in essence

it can be lonely but there is help but also that one is going to keep on knocking and I think that's really what entrepreneurship is about is that you're taking a risk you understand that there will be a reward into the future and I think an important thing David that you know I've come across is the fact that those that succeed in the journey of entrepreneurship are not the ones that sit out to make a lot of money. The ones that succeed are the ones that sit out to solve the problem to improve the well-being of society and others and the financial monetary success you know comes through as a result of them actually solving the problem and creating benefits for others. Yeah very true very true. My special guest is McLean Sebunda author of Nuts and Bolts strengthening Africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems. We'll have more from McLean when we come back I want to dive into some of those stories and maybe see if you'll relate some of those stories to us this is what's involved we'll be back in just a bit and we're back with what's involved and my special guest McLean Sebunda Nuts and Bolts strengthening Africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems it's a must-read book because I got a lot out of this book I certainly understand some of these ecosystems and the innovation hub etc etc a little better and some of those stories are incredibly inspiring talk me through just one pick a story that sticks with you McLean and talk me through that. Yeah so let me you know pick up the story of Riebezwe Uddiba and this is a young man that walks into the innovation hub when he was 17 years old and he had he had no clue what was going on but the mother was quite passionate about innovation in fact the mother is is one of the coaches that the innovation hub and and also EMLEP has been using and he attends an event that we called at the time Maxa Mondays and Maxa Mondays was something where we give people free coffee and we have an entrepreneur that has successfully executed their business idea talking to other budding entrepreneurs and the format was that they talked for about 15 minutes or so and then his Q&A and on that particular day he gets inspired in essence by an entrepreneur that was speaking at the time it was a guy called Craig McLeod who had worked with Mark Shuttleworth and that impression stayed with him and fast forward

Riebezwe went on to become part of a geek culture movement he is now a geek he is currently a business analyst with Hollard partner you know solutions and his life in essence has been changed because of that single encounter on a Monday morning over a free coffee with a number of people that were much older than him and in essence for me you know David these this is what I believe that ecosystem builders should really be waking up in the morning and going out to do to inspire younger people to follow the route of innovation and entrepreneurship because that is what is going to build our economies yeah absolutely I mean as I mentioned earlier I'm a firm believer that that this innovation and entrepreneurship is definitely the way to go I'm fascinated by that story but there's there's a couple of others so let's jump into one more because I don't want to give everything away I want to leave a lot of meat in the book still but let's let's have a look at one more story if we don't mind yeah so let's have a look at Intertugor Shezy I've spoken about Intertugor in earlier Intertugor a very bright entrepreneur a great future I bump into him at the SAP Foundation Awards you know one evening and he relates the story someone points out to a very short guy in the crowd and says that's McLean the CEO of the Innovation Hub go talk to him about your idea so he comes and he says you know I've got this idea and you know it's really looking at how we can monetize the concept of cows I say what do you mean monetize cows as well in the old tradition um you know cattle were a form of wealth but now we've all moved into the cities and I've come up with the concept where city dwellers in essence can own cattle and and and and and you know digitize it and what have you so I say to him well come over and pitch your idea to the Innovation Hub he comes over pitches the idea he gets admitted to our incubator fast forward he builds a business he graduates moves on to Jobek to another accelerator manages to get another 500 000 to help him accelerate his business today livestock wealth is a big business he's been able to pivot it it as well it's on 70 million rand in assets as of May 2020 and one can look up to Trugo Shazy Livestock Wealth and a great you know a great business also very inspirational you know young men very humble but also very relatable so that's another story that is contained in the book which is really worth reading yeah wonderful wonderful stuff and and it's so good to hear this I was chatting to somebody the other day and said you know what we get so much bad news fed to us and so much doom and gloom and I don't think we focus on the good news and the potential and the possibility that we have in this country of ours so so a book like yours that gives you a roadmap but that also focuses on some of these stories and success stories I think it's absolutely fantastic now McCain just uh maybe it's a bit aside from the book if somebody is is now listening to this interview and maybe they've read the book and they're not listening to the interview and they're going okay but I still don't know where to start I want to I feel I've got an idea I want to start a business because let's be honest you know a lot of people particularly in these times would start a business more out of necessity than than passion and and you know that's just I think the way it is but where does one start then because it's all good and well having a great idea but I'm thinking and particularly those people in the lower income groups the rural people how on earth do we get going from idea and and to get to people like yourselves and the the innovation hub etc yes I think the the first thing uh David is for them to to really think through what problem are they solving I think that's a very important question is what problem am I solving um and how is this problem being solved at the moment the idea that I have how does it improve on the way that uh the problem is being solved and is someone willing to pay me uh for this improvement that I have I will be introducing and if so uh it's important to actually figure out uh how much one other people will be willing you know to pay you now there's a tool that I call the business model canvas and anyone listening can we can google it and it has it is about nine blocks or so and it it really helps one to articulate the idea in terms of the value proposition the customer segments and what are you going to be doing as a business the part the partnerships that you need how you're going to make money what are your costs and so you can do a business model canvas on one page I would encourage that as opposed to launching out into a full business plan uh and I think once one has actually done that it's it's then important to actually ask the question is this idea so new that it deserves to be protected by way of a patent and if so apply for a provisional patent application and if and also when engaging with prospective customers and and and and people that will help sign confidentiality agreements and then it's important to actually go out into the market and test the idea there is no better way of testing with an ideal work other than testing it with a customer a customer that's willing to pay and I mean Vusi Tambaguayo talks about an interesting story in his book called Vusi and the story is about a young a group of young people that approach him at a funeral and they ask him for five rand and it gives them five rand on condition that they go and raise another five rand from other people around and these young people come back having raised you know some more money and then he says to them why do you need the money and they say well we need them for sweets and he says to them well great why don't you go buy the sweets but sell half of those sweets to other people and then you can keep the other sweets and then that that way in essence he had inspired those young people to think about commercializing their idea and also in essence building a business as opposed to falling into the trap of consumption so that would be in essence part of the advice that I'll give you know David and also approach the incubators like the innovation hub and some of the people that support entrepreneurs but understand that you will be rejected as an entrepreneur and the rejection is not a rejection of you but it's a rejection of the of the idea and the times people do not understand your idea and never give up I mean I always keep on I say to people just keep on keeping on if you believe in it firmly enough keep on keeping on absolutely absolutely I think giving up is is not a an option but at the same time it's important to know when you are chasing a dead horse and this is when in essence your idea is not commercially viable and it's quite important for entrepreneurs to get to that decision as quickly as possible which is what the the saying fail fast in essence means is that get out into the market test the the product the minimum viable product or pilot see whether customers or consumers are willing to to pay and if they're not at times you have to abandon that dream and pick up on another one yeah well said my special guest is McLean Sabunda author of nuts and bolts strengthening Africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems we're running out of time but when we come back I'm going to wrap it up with McLean this is what's involved and we're back with my special guest McLean Sabunda author of nuts and bolts strengthening Africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems McLean has been absolutely fantastic having a chat to you where where can somebody get the book is it is it one of those at all good bookshops yes it's available at the good bookshops including exclusives at loads if one is interested in an author signed copy they can go on to my website sibanda legacy dot africa and order there on the online store or they can

find me on twitter McLean Sabunda mclen sabunda or also on linkedin alternatively they can send me a what's up on my number 0a3378 0 2 3 0 and i'll be happy to do a signed copy for them fantastic that we're starting to see uh david there's also the kindle version of the book for those that like uh reading on their tablets that's also available on amazon fantastic sorry uh mclen that that website again sibanda legacy dot africa yes that's correct fantastic right before i let you go the question i always like to ask my guests um you've had a stellar career to date you've written a great book what's next for mclen sabunda um so david one of the things that um one realizes is that uh you you don't leave uh for yourself but uh i think the sole purpose of of life is to improve on humanity uh and so i'm quite um you know inspired by the work that still remains to be done on the continent on infrastructure and so my focus is in essence helping the bigger group to get into addressing many of the infrastructure challenges that we face as a continent but also to assist entrepreneurs and innovators navigate through the journey so i teach at africa university i teach innovation and entrepreneurship but also i'm i'm working on a second book which is looking at intellectual property and this would be also another fascinating book in terms of what africa can do should do and lessons from other countries such as japan china korea as well as also lessons from south africa uh so i think the future is bright uh and indeed um innovation and not aid is what we should be focusing on and i think it's quite important for each one of us to make it count in whatever we do

okay fantastic stuff wow all right okay so yeah i was i was just taken i was taken away by the dream i i was dreaming about all sorts of infrastructure things there uh mccain thank you so much for taking the time out and having a chat to us i know you are a very busy guy uh we do sincerely appreciate it once again the book is called nuts and bolts strengthening africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems uh check out uh mccain's website sebunda legacy dot africa mccain thank you again and i hope to chat to you when that second book comes out thank you very much david and thank you very much to the listeners and all the best let's make it count with nuts and bolts wonderful stuff that was my special guest mccain sebunda well worth a read that book nuts and bolts strengthening africa's innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystems this is what's involved to each and every one of you look after yourselves take care and thank you for listening