Soft Pots — Sylvie Hurford turning an idea into a business during Covid

Once more, it is what's involved. So good to have you along with us. One of the things I love doing on this show is when I find new guests and chat to them, I am so excited when I find entrepreneurs that are doing incredible things, and specifically during this year and the times that we are going through. So it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you my guest for this show, it's Sylvie Herford. Hello, Sylvie. Hello, David, you sound nice and perky for a Monday morning. Well, I'm getting to do what I love, so it's all good, it's all good. Sylvie, I sort of came across you via a post that I did on LinkedIn, and it just, it was one of those wonderful, wonderful, synchronistic kind of events. Tell me, before we get into what you're currently doing, tell me a little bit about your background. Tell me, who is Sylvie? Oh, goodness. Which one, I can tell you about all of them. It was synchronistic, actually, as much of this new business of mine has been, but historically, I'm a Cape Town girl, born and raised. I attended school in Cape Town, I studied here, and quite early on, I made a decision that I wanted to be a journalist, and I had two journalist parents, and they said, under no circumstances whatsoever do you get to study journalism, you'll either know how to write or you won't.

So I was hustled off to go and do a B.com, which I entered, and subsequently raced out of there and went into, largely, the magazine industry. So I've always absolutely loved visuals, images, content, writing, so early days of the magazine industry in Cape Town in South Africa. And then right through to the glory days, we had the most fantastic time, I worked as a contributing beauty editor, worked as a makeup artist, as a journalist, a TV presenter, I was with L'Oreal for many years, and then I started to hyper-specialize into beauty marketing, specifically geared towards South African women and South African market. And that kind of took, you know, that took flight for the rest of my career. So localizing global brands into South Africa to suit the South African consumer, and then educating backwards towards global brands as to how we like to be communicated too. And that resulted in several appointments in retail. I was with a number of large retailers as an integrated marketing manager and strategist. And a lot of that was to do with just working across multiple brands, specifically in beauty, both external and internal, I did a lot of work on private label brands, and just positioning them in the South African market, and working to make them relevant and viable for our customers.

- Wow, okay. - And then I published a cookbook somewhere along the line. (laughing) - It sounds fascinating, but just break it down a little bit for me. I don't mind if you mentioned some names, but just so we got an idea of who you worked for. - Well, the biggies, you know, the top five. (laughing) So I was with L'Oreal, I was with Sheeny Group, I was with the Clicks Group, I was with Woolworths. So yeah, the big deal, guys. And I think that had always been a dream of mine to become involved in retail South Africa, because it was very important for me to try to change behavior from the inside art. And I felt that as an independent person, even as a journalist, even as a makeup artist, or a content creator, or as a product developer, that I wasn't able to reach people in as much as I'd hoped to, or that I imagined I would be able to we're in a large organization with a huge amount of clout. So I'd moved from agency, where we'd been managing quite large brands, which I mean, I can't mention, brands like G Star, Moroccan Oil, Glenmorangie. And we were working with these sort of high profile premium brands, and educating the kind of stakeholders globally, as to how to work to bring these brands to South Africa.

And which felt, it feels a little tone deaf now, considering the environment we're in now, and it always felt to me a little off, that we were punting sort of heavyweight brands into South Africa. But by the same token, they brought great joy, and they brought us up to a global stage, whereby we started to do really, really interesting work with global brands. And we made them relevant to South Africa. And I found that to be fascinating, very rewarding. And it was similar with L'Oreal. I joined them on contract as their creative director of makeup, to start to make the brand more relevant to South African consumer. And we worked very hard to do that. And I think having been in cosmetics for as long as I had been, it was difficult for me to try to sort of reconcile the, I suppose the very, I don't wanna say vanity, but the vanity aspect of beauty, along with my personal feelings about being a woman and how women should be treated and how we should be respected in South Africa. And I went on to quite a big drive to work with psychologists, work with historians, work with people who knew about what feeling good and looking good did for women in terms of upliftment and how they viewed themselves and how they could present a brave face to the world.

And to try and move into an era of self-care and self-focus as opposed to trying to carve and copy yourself into every other person you see on Instagram. So my love for beauty grew much deeper because it became important to me that women were able to see the intrinsics of a product just by applying it. You're giving yourself five minutes just on your own. And we did a lot of work with children in Burns units, Tybok Hospital and in Red Cross. I'm going to go and spend time with them just with sort of soft cloths and big brushes and just that feeling of touch on your face and personalizing your face and feeling strong and powerful again. So it's been a big, big thread in my career and it's obviously led to a very strong interest in women. I've lived with women and it's actually significant that today is a year to the day of the anniversary of Uyeneni's murder. And I've worked up being quite sad and actually there was a darkness around that time. So for me, it's all about just getting women to feel their worth. - Wonderful stuff. Now you talk about your corporate journey, which is, it's quite amazing, the kind of work that you've done. Was there always an entrepreneurial side to you? Did you always yearn for something more?

- I did, yeah, I did. I loved being in Copenhagen. I was very proud to have those names next to mine. It was a source of great, as I say, great pride to say, gosh, you know, this is who I am and this is what I do. But I have always had an entrepreneurial spirit, right? From when I was a little girl, I made the most appalling earrings and sold them on Green Market Square. And I've always wanted to earn my own money. I've always earned my own money. And any which way possibly that I've been able to do that. So part of that was, you know, starting a website several years ago, which we ultimately monetized and sold. And as I say, writing and having a cookbook published, or those who all know authors, you're never gonna get rich writing. And I have, yeah, I've developed products. I've done talks. I've always just felt like I would love to be able to think of a wonderful idea and then employ really clever people to do it.

- Yeah, that's the thing. One of my lessons I was taught at a fairly young age and my arrogance didn't let me absorb the lesson, but it's to surround yourself by people that are better than you at what they do. - 100% and to celebrate those people because you know, we can't do it all. And I would feel so much more comfortable surrounded by subject matter specialists. - And it certainly does help. So you were selling earrings, as you said, at a fairly young age. Anything else that you did with an entrepreneurial bent, and I'm asking all of this for a reason, because when we get on to what you're doing now, it's, unless there's a thread I don't get yet, it's totally different from anything you've done before. - It could not be more different. It is completely out of my comfort zone. It is a skill that I didn't have until we went into lockdown. It is something that I would never have considered or thought of in a million years. And there is absolutely no thread to whatsoever. So you're not wrong. - Oh, good, good. But entrepreneurial wise, what else did you kind of get up to? Because your story to me is absolutely fascinating because it almost seemed as though you went from a place where you were riding high and suddenly there was changes.

Now did the changes happen before the coronavirus pandemic hit us or were you like so many of us sort of caught offsides and suddenly dumped into this whole new reality that none of us knew how to deal with? - Yeah, it was combination of the two. So the changes had started to happen prior to coronavirus. So there'd been certain shifts just in terms of where I felt I was in my role in corporate and where I could go and how much, I suppose how much influence I could have in terms of what we were doing and getting my voice heard. And there was a level of frustration because I think as any marketer, we operate on science. I mean, I'm data led and there's always just a little bit of instinct and gut there too. And it's not to say that, you know, as I said to you in my introduction, I'm still an unemployed strategist. (laughing) I had started a consultancy where I'd taken on a couple of clients, large beauty clients whereby we were going to take beauty to the people. So it was about engaging, interacting, speaking to women, uplifting them, spending time with them, educating them around product, demystifying, debunking beauty. And obviously with lockdown, that was immediately thrown out because there was not a chance at one interface with the public whatsoever.

So I worked, I started to work with a number of brands just with COVID adjusted strategies, but everything was quite knee-joke at that stage because we did not know where we were going or what we were doing. And I found that I actually just went back to basics in terms of marketing as a science. So I, you know, ultimately what we wanted to do was we want to make sales. So my COVID adjusted strategies for a number of brands was simply about that, about getting them online, getting them sold as soon as trade was open and working around different ways of communicating their brands to the market. But that was not hugely profitable because I think, you know, unfortunately what happens is the minute that the economy goes into a downward slide, the first thing that happens is people slash marketing. And to me, it's never made sense because marketing in and of itself is taking something to market. You will not sell without using any of the principles of marketing, you know, along the way. So I've actually been working on a piece that I've been writing called Mercating because it has become murky. The lines are very, very kind of blurry. And I feel a lot of people are making a lot of decisions that are not necessarily based on business strategy or objectives.

So, you know, there was a level of frustration there and also burnout. I was incredibly tired, just cripplingly, cripplingly fatigued. And I think reinventing yourself over and again can be exhausting and I've done it. I'm a chameleon, you know, I've changed course many ways to get to where I've wanted to be. And I just kind of peeked out. I was like, you know what, I just want to plant vegetables. I want to plant vegetables and read books. And I've spent more time in my home over lockdown than I have in the 12 years that I've lived here. And with my children who are teenagers. And suddenly different things started to matter to me. And I'd been, I traveled at the end of low or during last year and at the end of last year, I'd been to Stockholm and I went to Hong Kong in November. And there was something about the use of space and the way people lived that really appealed to me. So I have a joke, you know, I have a Scandinavian sensibility. - It's Scandinavian. - I love it. I know, I mean, I made the most one. I've been doing work with the breweries, breweries soup kitchen collective. And I made the most wonderful woman who was half, half Swedish and half Asian. I said, "Oh my word, you're Scandinavian, I love you." And she just thought this was the best thing ever.

But I love the sensibilities of being able to create green pockets and spaces and areas within your home. Even if it's, if you're living in a tiny block of flats with a one square meter concrete balcony. Especially in, especially in Hong Kong, I spent some time on Lantau Island, which was really beautiful and quite interesting 'cause the little villages are all built up on hills and people have to make do with what they have in terms of space. And I started to, I was very inspired by what they were doing there. And I've always wanted to have, I'm a big cook. So I always wanted to have a vegetable garden and a home kitchen. And so I started to look at ways where just sort of occupational therapy, where I could actually just check out and put my hands over my ears and go la, la, la, la, la, la and do something that just was different and brought me joy. - Yeah, I call that ostriching, you know, you stick your head in the sand and pretend that nothing's happening. - Absolutely, it's like, you know, the money is pouring out of the bank of dancers. You don't have the brass penny. And I'm just like, you know what? I could sit here and I was working on my website for my real job. And I sort of feel like doing something creative.

I just feel like doing something beautiful and interesting. And that brings me joy. And that allows me to do practical work. And I think that it's always been a saying of mine that I learned somewhere along the way was that when your hands are busy, then your head is empty and your heart is full. And for me, that was really important for where I am right now. - Wonderful stuff. My special guest is Sylvie Hereford. We are chatting about her entrepreneurial journey. What a fascinating one it has been as well. When we come back, we're gonna find out what this mysterious business is. My special guest is Sylvie Hereford. We'll be back in just a bit.

And we're back. It is what's involved. My special guest is Sylvie Hereford. So I think we've set the stage, Sylvie. Everybody, including myself, is now on the edge of their seats going, okay. So what has Sylvie done? - Hardly, David, you've got to me. - What has she done? How has she done it? And this is where, I think for some people, the bombshell is going to drop. And it's amazing to me that you've done this because it's literally, I mean, the buzzwords at the moment are being agile and pivoting and all of those fancy words. - Oh yeah, pivoting, yeah. - Which really, you know, I've pivoted so much, I could almost be a blooming ballerina. - I know, I feel like it's feeling tough, I know. - Yeah, but you were looking for something creative, some outlet, you were housebound. And then you came across an idea. Talk to me about that. - Well, it wasn't so much an idea, it was a solution. So I had, and I mean, it's quite ridiculous. I live in Frederhoek in Cape Town. And it's incredibly windy here. And I've never been able to grow a garden on the weather facing side of my property. So I have a very small courtyard at the back. And I thought, you know what would be greater? 'Cause I've been so inspired by looking at women in the townships working with container gardening.

And building these beautiful gardens out of cement bags and old barrels and just creating these green lots which were abundant. And it was just the most extraordinary thing to see. And I thought, well, I can do that. So I started to look around to find various things that I could plant in. And, you know, there were a couple of things I couldn't really find what I was looking for at the nurseries. And there was a price attached as well. And I wanted to see if I could make something. So I dug around in my garage. And I mean, I'm a consumer and I keep everything. And I found some felt that I had bought for my son's school play when he was in grade two. So bearing in mind, he's 19. - Okay, so it had been there for a while. - It had been there for some time. And I pulled it out and I thought, oh God, this is useless. You know, I'm not gonna do anything with this. I might as well practice on it. And I wanted to make myself little container bags. So I could grow my lettuce and I could grow my seedlings and do my experiments. And so I whipped one up and it was the most disastrously ugly thing you've ever seen in your entire life. And then I whipped up a few more and I started planting in them.

And I noticed that the plants really seemed to be happy. They were kind of wiggling around and they think they seemed happy. And I thought, oh no, well, you know, I've got black thumbs. There's no way this is gonna work. And they got happier and happier. And then I started giving them to friends and said, oh, I've made these disgusting little gnome pots as my mother put them. And, you know, plant your plants in them just see what happens. Because they're not plastic. So there's breathability. And the roots seem to be really happy. Everything I've been sticking into the soil seems to be working. So some unfortunate members of my family and some close friends received the early iterations of the pot. And I started to play a little bit more and highly illegal activity. I had a friend over here. He's actually my creator partner. We've been working together for many, many years. His name is Ian Martin. And he came over and he said, these are adorable. So I said, yeah, I've just been playing around with them. They're kind of fun. And I've been potting various things into them. He said, no, but they're absolutely beautiful. They've got the most wonderful aesthetic, this beautiful curve and the felt is lovely.

He said, you know, you really should be talking to some of the retailers. He said, I can see this on a, I don't know, on a Superbalist or he said, it's pure apartment living at its absolute best. So I was like, well, I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't know how to sew. I was doing this at this point on a borrowed machine from a neighbor and she lent me her machine. And I taught myself how to sew on YouTube. And my mother actually said to me, where did you learn how to sew? Well, not from you, lady.

I taught myself how to sew. And then I, yeah, and he just said to me, you know, these are fantastic. You need to get this right. So I said, yes, but what am I going to call them? I said, it's just this sort of soft pot. He said, well, that's what you're going to call them. You're going to call them soft pots. I was like, okay, right. And then suddenly we became sort of very enthused about the whole thing. So we got together and designed a logo and I made up some samples, very poor samples. We did a very beautiful shoot. He's a highly creative, talented individual. And we went live on social media and we said it's a pot, but it's soft. And it took a while for people to actually register that wasn't in fact a pot to cover. You plant into the planter. And it's just a beautiful decor piece that actually does good. So it's functional design and the felt keeps it water-wise. So you only have to water your plant every two weeks or so. It comes with an inner lining, so it prevents it from dripping onto whatever surface it's on. And to be perfectly honest, if it does drip, you just use the pot to wipe it up because it's a soft cloth. And then I bought a machine. We were granny powered initially.

I mean, it was women who were people's grannies were helping me. And yeah, I've got an overlocker and then turned to my entire living room into a studio and bolts of fabric. And then, yeah, slowly just started plugging away without any real, you know, just enjoying it. As I said, it was almost like occupational therapy, being able to sit and so and so and so and listen to the radio and do nothing, no thinking, just creating. - And there is, sorry, there is a certain joy to that because literally, and as you said earlier on, you get to just sort of empty your mind and you're focusing on one thing and the cares of the world just seem to melt away for that little bit of time. - Absolutely, and it's very gratifying to make something. You know, I think all the banana bread is testimony to the fact that we needed to make things during lockdown. - Oh my goodness, banana bread and sourdough bread. And I'm gonna put my hand up. I'm gonna put my hand up right now and say, I did sourdough bread. - Oh yeah. - I did, I did. - You know what? You've got a starter for me. I have killed so many starters, you have no idea. - Well, well, I need to tell you in my quest over the last little while, because I found some of the most amazing people and that have shown incredible resilience during the COVID pandemic and everything.

There's a company and I'm gonna be chatting to the founder of it called Motherdough. And they actually, they sell starters, but it's a starter that comes from Italy and it's, I don't know, it's an old, old starter and it's just the story there is amazing. So if I chat to them, I'll certainly put in a word for you over there. - Please do, please do, 'cause I'm murder starters. I absolutely murder starters. - Well, let's get into a little bit more about the pots when we come back with my special guest, Sylvie Hurford from Soft Pots. I think it's a brilliant idea. We'll chat more to Sylvie when we come back. It is what's involved.

And we're back. It is what's involved. My special guest is Sylvie Hurford from Soft Pots, something that even when I heard it, I was like, huh, okay, now I get it. But now we're gonna get onto, well, there's a couple of things I wanna get onto. First and foremost, you did this without any sort of knowledge of being a seamstress or of in fact, agriculture or anything like that. You just decided that this might be a great idea. You stumbled onto this idea. And yet there is a part of the world that advocates and uses very much these fabric pots.

And it's useful for in the sort of, the basic iteration of it, I suppose, is used for things like growing veggies, et cetera, et cetera. But it's mainly designed, in fact, I've grown some of the stuff, the veggies, et cetera, et cetera, in some of these soft pots. And I don't know what it is, but they do, plants seem to thrive in those pots. Have you figured out why yet? - Yeah, absolutely. So effectively what happens in these pots, it's the closest thing to actually being in the ground. So because there's mobility around the pot, so they're not trapped into this kind of standard issue, plastic planters that you get when you buy a plant from the nursery. They're not trapped into those. What happens with those is that they're obviously impermeable. And the root tends to sweat and rot. So it will sit in a pot like that. And if you're not that comfortable with how regularly you should be watering your plants or you overwater or underwater them, what tends to happen is that those roots rot. And it also doesn't give them the opportunity to sort of wiggle their toes and explore. So when you put a plant into a plant, sorry, into a plant bag, as it were, it allows the plant to actually stretch its legs.

And it's temperature controlled, which is very, very important. So it doesn't become overly hot or overly cold. And it's also water-wise. So it will retain some of the moisture in the fabric, but if there is excess moisture, it will wick out. So the plants tend to be a lot happier in them. I actually kind of wiggle mine around a little bit so that the soil doesn't become absolutely solid. I allow it to be quite loose and loamy. And the plants really respond to this environment very well. And I've done obviously a fair amount of research on it. And that seems to be the common thread that is coming through. It really is about stimulating root growth and providing them an environment which is similar to being in the ground. And I look at mine now and, you know, I mean, I've rescued a number of plants from some terribly unhappy childhoods. And I'm very, you know, delighted to announce that they're flourishing and doing very well. - That is fantastic to hear. I know another thing is when you talk about the roots wiggling their toes, they're actually able to, you know, they can also almost permeate the bag itself, the cloth bag. But then they go, okay, hang on, that's not a nice environment.

And then off they go again on their journey. And I think it's brilliant. And particularly if you're living in a small place, I have actually had a, I have a calendar reminder that says to me, it is, you know, Thursday or Saturday or whatever, you need to water your plants because otherwise I'll look up at them and go, oh, oh dear. In fact, I'm doing exactly that right now. - You're doing one better than me, yeah. I sort of lift them up and if they're a bit light, I'm like, oh dear, I better water them. (laughing) - Oh goodness, I've got something called a peace lily, which is in a normal terracotta pot. And that's basically my indicator plant 'cause as soon as it gets all droopy and I'm looking at it now and it's very droopy, then it's time for water. So we're gonna do the-- - Watering is a good start. - Yeah, we're gonna do the watering thing right now. So, Sophie, soft pots, you started off, it was a great idea. You were telling me with a borrowed machine, then you got some more machines. But now when I think of a pot, I think of it's either a terracotta pot or one of those black sort of plastic pots or whatever. It's not terribly attractive. - No. - So yours different. - Yeah, mine are different.

And I think because I didn't wanna tackle the agricultural market. There are grow bags, grow bags exist. So I'm not out there pretending that you're gonna be able to launch your container gardening organic vegetable farm. What I'm doing is creating beautiful objects that are very simple and very practical. And I think this was, it was a huge stamp of approval for me when VC magazine picked them up as design objects. And they were featured as designers to watch or items that we love. And I think that was very important for me to communicate that they're pretty things. They're not intended to be agricultural or to sit outside and to get super ugly. Although they're amazing. They work outside absolutely brilliantly. I have what I call the security detail outside. I've got three cacti. And they sit out there, wind, rain, storm. And if they get a bit muddy, I just dust them off and they look absolutely beautiful. But I think for me, it was more about the aesthetic of the pots, which I think seems to be appealing to so many people. They just look at it and they go, God, that looks so nice. As my father said, they're an unexpectedly soft place to land because you just kind of wanna cuddle them.

And I got very annoyed with my mother for calling them cute and whatever, though those are so cute. And as I say, the family were little gnome pots. So I thought, well, I better put some lipstick on this pig. And I added the little sidewinder tag, which has become my trademark. And they just bring joy to be able to just look at them. They come in the most beautiful, vibrant, crazy felt colors or in deep dark charcoals. And you can mix them up and they really are, they're just a delight to look at. You can go and go and give your plants a little cattle or a stroker. I've got one at the moment, which he's just a really solid guy. We packed him square and he's just, he looks very reliable. So, yeah, and they're just so easy. And if you're doing kids rooms or if you're doing, if you want herbs in your kitchen and you live in a small apartment and, you know, those very, very narrow windowsills that sit behind burglar bars, I've actually designed the mini to have a long narrow, so they can actually sit side by side on the windowsills, not fall off. And you can really play with them. And when your plant outgrows them, you give them a shake and you put something new in them.

And we're back. What's involved? That is my special guest, Silvie Hereford, soft pots. And they come in all sorts of fantastic colors. Sizes as well, Silvie? Yes, absolutely. So I do a mini, a midi, a midi max, and a maxi. So they come in everything from growing a little, just a little herb on the windowsill right up to planting, you know, a large ficus or delicious monster or something that you'd want to put outside. And I do custom, I do custom make them. We, it is often according to what fabric we have in stock and what the availability is. Obviously, given restrictions, it's been a battle for us to get, to get new stock, but I've just found a new stockist, which I'm very excited about. So there's going to be a brand new range coming out very soon. Wonderful. But you do have some stock available and... Absolutely. Absolutely. I do have stock available. We are in the process of building the website. This has been another learning curve for me, because I, somebody built a website for me and I didn't like it. So I've decided to do it myself. So I've now learned all about that. So we're going to go live within the course of the week. I think everything's happened ahead of, ahead of me.

It's happened faster than, than I had actually planned. So we are, we're on Instagram, which is softpotsza, @softpotsza. And we're fully interactive. I'm on there, Erin's on there. You can chat to us any time that you like. All the orders and sizes are there. And then we also have a Facebook page at the moment, which is just called softpots. And again, fully interactive. You can mail me, you can call me, you can look at the different sizes, look at the images. And then there is also a link on the VC website, which will take you to a little bit more about the pots themselves. And we're going to be live with our website, which will be fully transactional by the end of this week. And yeah, so I just got to, just got to polish my, polish my website making skills, but it's part, it's come with being, being super controlling, you know, do everything yourself. - You are preaching to the choir here, okay? - I know, I know it's terrible. - I do the same thing. Can you build me a website? - I've got to let go. - Can you build me a website? Yes, I can. No, that's not what I like. Okay. - Well, what do you want? I don't know. Let me just do it myself. - Exactly, exactly. And then I get halfway through the website that I'm building and I go, no, I actually don't like it.

And I delete it. - No, no, no, no, no, I'm actually quite in love with mine. I lost a couple of drafts and then I came back and then a journalist contacted me from a publication and she said to me, you know, I need to put these things in now. And I was like, no, I have a website, just hold it for a second. I said, just please, just put my phone number in. So yeah, so it's been quite sweet. I have a friend who's got a modification company in Cape Town. She's got them on her website. They are selling at Granter Bay with another friend. And yeah, I'm just taking direct orders. I ship around the country. I've got my first international order, which I'm very excited about. And yeah, and I'm available to chat to anytime. It's very important for me that any questions that anybody has, or, you know, everyone asks the same questions and I'm here to answer them, so. - Wonderful stuff. Now, Sylvie, how does this thing tie in with your earlier comments about empowering women? I mean, are you at a stage now where you've created jobs for people? - I am at the precipice of that stage. And this is what is so important for me. I have identified a workshop of people who are based at the RDP in the Overberg in Hermanus, who I met through charity work that I was involved with through Feeding Schemes.

And they have been set up there with four industrial machines and overlockers in a very humble environment, but very skilled and amazing woman who are working there. And I'm at a point where, if I am looking at approximately 30% more orders than I'm getting at the moment, I will be able to open a line. It would probably be on short time at this stage, but I would be able to open a line or I would be able to employ somebody full-time into my own studio with me to work alongside me in the production. So I'm right there. And that is, that's my big, my big goal at this point, because I would like to get these orders up. And I'd like to start cheering them up because there are so many talented women in South Africa. We have a, especially in Cape Town, we have an industry of seamstresses who are so skilled at their craft. And I need those women in my life. I desperately need them. So, and I want to be able to afford to pay them properly and to give them the opportunity to work on something that they might enjoy. And that's the goal, that's the ultimate goal. I'm working on a collaboration with a designer in October. We'll be doing stuff around Base Cancer Awareness with donations. And it's just important to me that whatever we can do, that ultimately the first thing is to employ one person, if not, if not in line.

So that's where I'm headed. - I think that is absolutely fantastic. And just by talking to you, and I've spoken to a bunch of people and particularly during this COVID period, people have been so uncertain. There's been a lot of fear, there still is, a lot of fear about the future and what to do. You sound like you have found your what. And it's a book title that a gentleman from the States did and he wrote a book called "What Is Your What?" And it sounds like you found your what. And it was nowhere where you expected to find it. - No, it wasn't. But what it is, where it has its similarities is that it is still about women. It's still about beautiful things. Still about creativity, still about finding a space for yourself, creating a lifestyle, doing things differently. All of the things that I've always kind of abided by, all the rules that I've abided by, and also just to provide an environment where people can ultimately work, where there is a place of safety and happiness. I think that was something that I found terribly lacking in my life previously. And I think that it's very important to be able to work alongside women and people. It's not to the exclusion of men at all. My teenage son is my delivery guy.

But yeah, just to be able to be in an environment, I think our priorities have shifted. And it's been an interesting exercise for me because I actually thought, well, if it doesn't work, it's certainly a great case study for my marketing CV. (laughing) - It's my exercising branding. - Yeah, well, you know what? I think you've got the qualifications and I think you have the most important ingredient there, or two of them, which is passion and love. So I want to say thank you for taking the time out to have a chat to me. I wish you all the very best. I'm sure we're gonna see soft pots all over the place. Once again, let's just look at the, it's @softpotzay, that's the Instagram handle. - That's the Instagram handle and I'm on there all the time. So come and chat to me. You know, if you don't get me, you'll get Ian. So just chat to us and there are all the contact buttons that you need there to get through to my email address or my cell phone or WhatsApp. No question, no question is stupid. And then there's a lot more information on Facebook page, which is just soft pots, S-O-F-T pots, soft pots on Facebook. And the site will be up later on this week, but I'm not even giving you the link because it is log's breakfast right now.

- And it's also SOD's law. You know, if you give a date, it says this is when it's gonna launch something. - Oh, I know. And I mean, I'm mortified. I mean, what kind of use this business person am I? And then I'm actually now here on broadcast radio and in local magazines. But we are getting there. And as I say, I'm fully transactional. And you just let me know what you want. And I can, I consult you out. And yeah, as I say, we are sending nationally at the moment and yeah, just started internationally. - Fantastic stuff. It's so good to hear good news and positive stuff about people who are thriving during this time. - Oh, thank you. - So well done. - Thank you, David. Thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, and I need to go and run up on the old Benina and try and make some more. Go and do some hassling. - Here we go. - Thank you for sharing your time with us. That was my special guest from Soft Pots, Sylvie Hereford. You know where to find her, get onto Facebook. Just look for Soft Pots and all the info will be there. So that about wraps it up for this edition of What's Involved. Thank you for listening.