APSO - Federation Of African Professional Staffing Organisations

special guest in the studio and I've been looking forward to having a chat to them ever since you remember we chatted a couple of weeks we chatted to a couple of times now I'm Daniela Bichelli from Daniela Bichelli International and she said to me you have to talk to Apso and I said I have no idea what Apso is or who Apso are so yeah what did we do we got them in and we got we got the royalty of Apso in we have Solophelo Ramodeme who is the president good evening how are you good evening nice to have you with us and the vice president Kanyam Flongo how are you Kany? I'm good on your day. Good I need you guys to get a little bit closer to the microphones I know it's a bit they've all been sanitized we're good we're good I often wonder you know as we were talking earlier on and people were mentioning it and I walked into the station and there's all these sanitary sprays and you know it's like what is this going to do and this is something maybe we can we can talk to you is it going to have an impact because let's start off at the very beginning and and do we call it Solophelo or Solop? You can call it Solop to be short? Solop. Solop. Solop. Solop. There we go. Okay let's do that. What is Apso? Please explain. Well basically Apso is a federation of African staffing organizations and it was established around about 1977. So you guys have been around. Oh yes yeah and and basically this Federation is about working towards you know regulating and professionalizing the the recruitment industry and we are also a member of the WEC the World Employment Confederation located in Brussels in Belgium yeah and I think currently from if I'm correct Connie we probably sitting at about just over 800 recruitment agencies as members of Apso and which 70% of them are SMEs so yeah that's that's basically you know the nutshell about about about Apso. All right now we're gonna get into because this is I think you guys are miracle workers because that's not all you do. I mean Solop you run a very successful business as well as does as does Connie. Talk to me a little bit about about why would somebody be a member of this? Does it give does it give recruitment agencies a form of credibility because there have been some dodgy ones in the past? Yes it absolutely it does give credibility but more than credibility it equips the industry with the knowledge and the skills that you would need to run a successful business as a recruiter or as a staffing agency as well as I mean legislation in the employment side of the side of things is quite broad so whatever that comes out of the Department of Labor or employment services as recruitment agencies we need to understand it we need to be able to apply it in in our everyday lives when we engage with candidates applying for jobs when we engaging with employers we need to make sure that we we are compliant in how we run our businesses and yes there's a lot of scrupulous or dodgy kind of establishments out there which are actually not registered registered so if we were to do an assessment to understand how many recruitment agencies are operating in South Africa there's a lot more than what we have on our books and a lot of those do not follow what you would say a professional way of running a recruitment company so we've heard a lot of issues I mean candidates complaining about the fact that agencies are asking them to pay for this or even legit recruitment agencies as information been cloned and scams running around on Facebook and everywhere else people having to pay 300 rent for a CV for just coming to see you for an interview so there's a lot of work to be done in in our industry it's a big industry I think it is and I see a lot of that you know when when I think of the scope of people and I look at people coming out of high school out of varsity is out of the colleges these are people looking for a job and and you know and maybe we can talk a bit about that as to you know because to me and we I made the joke earlier and I said I'm unemployable I mean I don't know if you held the gun to my head now I would not know how to put a CV together you know what has David done in his life things and stuff you know and it's really you know that's a vital thing to know but you know these people are looking for professional help and advice I mean if you're a graduate professional you know has has the internet affected what you guys do a lot because I mean up until a little while ago when I got very politely told that LinkedIn is so much more than just a place to post one CV but I mean is is there an online aspect as well so no yes so I think talking about the technology we we as an industry we really embrace the technology and but it's also about getting that balance between the tech and the human touch yeah and what I know like for instance with with with our organization as well we we we tend to help a lot of candidates you know with with with regards to how to put a CV together and I mean even to an extent whereby and we talk about professional people you know it even at various various levels in terms of saying when you go in for an interview what do they do is in the dance you know given that the tips in terms of how to really engage and present themselves better at you know when they're sitting with with potential employers okay so that's part of the service that you offer you would you would you would talk to a prospective candidate and say listen as absolutely you'd say listen this is what to do this is how you do it you do those kind of things yes our website has got a lot of information and free tools available to candidates as well as recruitment agencies even employers they can actually gain a lot of information on on employment services that we have available okay all right but let's talk let's talk a little bit about you know what qualifies you to to be the vice president because you also the MD of a company called think Korea in fact it's your own business isn't it yes this is my own business so just a bit of background I've worked in retail for the last 17 years and is no way you look way too young to have worked in retail in various management leadership roles in human resources then yeah it has been a dream of mine to actually impact other people's lives my passion predominantly is in the talent development space which is combined with talent acquisition so the company has been running for two and a half years now okay and how I became to be elected as the vice president I'm passionate about the industry and my main objective and mission in partnership with Tulu and the board is to make sure that we get to a point where the industry gets professionalized one from a candidate experience point of view what we need to make sure that job seekers are not taken for a ride as well as employers to for us to be able to gain the respect and the credibility of working with a qualified employment employment agency where else at the moment the the the credibility of the recruitment agencies is tarnished from it from a candidate point of view as well as employer point of view because not all of us operate applying the same principles the eight the same ethics and so forth where else if we were all to be professionalized like accountants and medical doctors and so forth we would actually because this is a science I don't think anybody can do recruitment it requires a lot of skill and talent to be able to find the right candidate to match up with what the employer is looking for it's not about just sending a whole bunch of cvs and just you know searching on the internet and you find someone that you believe you think they might match it's really about unpacking all of that in detail and be able to find the right person or right people for for the employers and make sure that we make the work of the employers a lot easier and for them to know that whoever whomever we presenting in front of them are the right caliber candidates is a qualified year because this is the thing I mean I've been in organizations before where you know they've gone well should we should be advertised this position via a recruitment agency and then the guys like no no no just you know put out an advert we'll get cvs and we'll hope to find somebody good and I think always particularly as you get into sort of upper management middle upper management that fit and that that that culture fit is very very important because if you get somebody that doesn't fit into that corporate culture they can mess up an entire department division it's a real challenge you'll be surprised I mean even with your entry-level candidates if you employ and let's say till operator in retail store who is absolutely not into engaging with customers they cannot communicate you're gonna have you're gonna lose your your customers because of that good point till operator who's not into that where else we are able to say for this particular retailer these are the values this is the culture this is the kind of individual they're looking for and also it's not about just placing for that particular moment you hope in that individuals can grow within that particular organization and for the company to be able to retain them as well so it's it's not it's not about you know running this revolving door kind of situation where we want people to be placed we get a placement fee and then they leave and replace them elsewhere it's really about a partnership between a recruitment agency as well as a an employer where they can we can help them to build a successful business with the right talent awesome let's get on to get on to you when we come back because I want to find out about what you do as well because your stuff also sounds fascinating and I love talking to people who know lots of things we're talking to the president and vice president of APSO at tonight all about recruitments they are a recruitment and staffing organization could you almost say could you almost say you that you're sort of a watchdog not a watchdog yeah maybe a watchdog you could say so yeah yeah to keep the the I think it's brilliant that there are organizations like yourselves that set standards and say okay this is what we need to achieve in terms of service delivery professionalism so I'm all for it do do recruitment agencies where you're stamped with pride can we ask somebody are they members yes you can cuz then I mean I want to know if they don't do their job I want to be able to have some recourse they do ask whether you are a member of APSO as well as other corporate organizations so if you're not a member of APSO they will not consider you for work opportunities or to even any tendering process okay good good happy to hear that so so let's talk a little bit about about you because aside from being the president you also run your own business talk to me about that all right so just to give you a little bit of my background so I've been in the recruitment game since 2005 mm-hmm and I think ever since then I really fell in love with recruitment and purely because you know developing that passion to to to help people and you know taking them along the they are what you call the career you know being part of that journey with them it's it's I think it's for me it's it's it's it's one of the best things that I can say that makes me to enjoy you know the recruitment industry so my company we got whole human capital group so we've been around since 2007 and purely focusing on recruitment training and development and HR consulting and we try to specialize as well when it comes to recruitment so we focus mainly on engineering ICT as well as commercial so your commercial be your finance your HR legal and so forth and and as I was mentioning to you Dave is that you know we we strongly emphasize when we work with our clients on on character matching and as can you mention that this goes beyond the numbers you know in terms of saying how many series have you submitted for a specific job specification but it's really about you know the in-depth of of understanding number one the candidates care aspirations in trying to match them with their clients business objectives and mirroring them together that's basically what we're all about in recruitment and you see that's that's the part I like and and and I think there must be an incredible sense of joy and pride if you've you've placed somebody and you see them fit into that culture and make their way up the corporate ladder to me that is that must be incredibly fulfilling wonderful stuff somebody goes hi David I missed it earlier what organizations do you do what they represent Karen they represent one organization APSO APSO you guys have a website hey yeah www.apso.org.za there we go so it's APSO Karen hope you got that some some some nice messages coming here people are obviously recruitment is a touchy subject one way or another because you're getting people that are loving it and you're getting people that are going no it's like you know it's swimming in murky waters with a bunch of sharks I have more of a problem with you know somebody you place somebody in a job and then you know you've done your work and then the company goes bomb thank you very much and that person just sits there with no career development path because I think that's important as well obviously not your problem necessarily but you know I think our corporates now at that stage are we at that level where we do have career paths for people yeah it is so Dave because I think even if you look at how the the whole recruitment process is changing within the the companies is that now companies are looking for recruitment agencies that become part of their strategic partner partners within within the organization so we start becoming you know sitting with within within like talking about the talent mapping becoming part of the talent management strategies you know talking about in the next five years these are the projects are gonna be taking place so how do we start growing you know skills or developing current skills or even start creating a pool so that we know that if a person started here within the next three years this is that this is where they'll be moving after that you know this is that career path within the organization so it's it's it's changing it and I'm saying probably for the last three years that's what has been happening within within the industry so now as as recruiters is it aside from just being your job to fit people to to to positions okay what role do you say you have in terms of a social thing because one of the things I'm noticing and maybe you guys you can help me because you work in this industry trades people qualified trades people it doesn't seem to be a cool thing to do anymore and and I don't know I maybe I'm old-fashioned I grew up where we need those trades people to to literally make the wheels of industry turn is that something as everybody is there leaning towards more glamorous fourth industrial revolution type stuff or are we still looking at trades we definitely are so out of the 800 odd recruitment companies that we are aware of they all specialize in different industries different skills so there are recruitment agencies who only specialize in artisans and trades people so your TV college's students there will be some of those cohorts who will be actually placed but also there's a growing I would say it's more an opportunity more than anything else for the the trades kind of all this the the technical artisans kind of people to be coached even more because it's no longer about just knowing only how to plumber yeah it's also about how do you become your own boss as well and become an entrepreneur and freelance so freelancing is gonna become one of those big opportunities for the trades people because there's a huge demand as much as you know we see a lot of people sitting on the sidewalks and so forth there is a huge demand out there and it will continue to be there until we understand where we going with you know the technology and the robotics and how technology is gonna impact some of those jobs but I don't think a lot of those jobs will go away they will remain in actual fact you will need people to be a lot more skilled to work alongside whichever robot that we might you might implement in that particular organization we're gonna talk a bit more about that and just in terms of you know what what what HR and recruitment means and the guy I am you can say I'm almost a rabid advocate of entrepreneurship of small businesses medium businesses because I firmly believe that is where the future of this country lies in entrepreneurs and and instead of us sitting in looking to government all the time and whining gang what are you doing for me get up let's see what we can do for ourselves we are South Africans we are known to be hardy people we come back and we'll chat some more to Tala fellow and Connie about episode and about their roles what they are doing if there's any questions you'd like to ask SMS us four one three four eight those SMSes are charged at 150 SMS four one three four eight otherwise you can whatsapp as 0 8 4 8 double 2 0 9 3 8 that's 0 8 4 8 double 2 0 9 3 8 love to hear from you love to hear your views on the subject it is what's involved on this Monday nights yes that's what we're trying to do we turn a reunites employees and employers we talking to the guys from APSO they are essentially it's a Federation for staffing and employment you guys are an organization and recruitment agencies and and they they belong to you what about the guys that do what is what do they call it these days if the labor brokers no no do we not like labor break well they're called temporary employment services temporary employment services yes I think they need a lot of attention just between you and me in the gatepost I'm not gonna put you on the spot and ask you to say anything but I do think personally they need some attention those people but the idea is is is with you guys and you know we were chatting about things like the fourth Industrial Revolution where you're going where do you see because obviously we having to to prepare ourselves for it because to a large degree the fourth Industrial Revolution is here it's only going to develop but we mentioned as well you know the human aspect that's why it's called human resources not anything else resources and I said Tiana I linked in you know that's where you bang your CV how does that fit in with you guys well I think I mean talking about the the artificial intelligence and the automation we need to embrace it and I think I remember we're talking about it in our last conference last year mm-hmm where we say that we need to use the technology to basically you know accelerate the workflow secondly to refine processes and obviously just enhancing that that candidate experience you know being able to to engage with with with with candidates at crucial points you need that career path and talking about I think we're talking about the the trades if you look at the the South African aspects we we are seen as one of the manufacturing hubs in Africa yes and talking about the automotive if you look at how a car is built you'll always need those trades people you know you need your mail rights you need your electricians you need your fitters and so forth listen it's something that cannot just go away because of this for IR yeah well there's there's a big electricity supply place that apparently need some really really good artisans at the moment just saying I'm not known for my subtlety guys so please just to excuse me there so you know there are those and I've had there's a couple of messages coming somebody just saying you know why do we even need recruitment agencies these days I think explain this to me because as I understand it you know you don't just say okay send me a bunch of cvs okay this is these guys are looking for this and just match cvs with companies there is it's it's gotten a lot more technical hasn't it there is a psychological aspect to this yes there is as I said earlier on sourcing for the right and the best talent hmm it's not easy especially where we are in an environment where everyone is looking for employment an employer does not have the time and energy to go through millions and millions of cvs to you know to just to get to the one that they're looking for and that's where we come in we are sourcing specialists we are able to connect and engage with candidates or job seekers we are able to sell the company to candidates so the world has moved on in that candidates are very choose in terms of who they want to work for so we are able to play the employer branding kind of specialist role represent the employer and speak on their behalf but truthfully without selling them something that which does not actually exist so it's actually more than just we don't we don't actually pull cvs together recruiters don't do that I mean that is automated we we now focusing more on engaging candidates sourcing them and telling them more about the role understanding if they're the right people or not and be able to say this is not gonna be for you as much as you are desperate for employment let's help you find something that's gonna be that's gonna best suit you in future so it's it's more than just recruiters oh yeah cvs there's a lot of work behind that I would imagine there would be in particularly you know as you're getting to to higher levels and more specialized levels it would be it's the aim though to get to the stage where for example and you mentioned the automotive industry so so I'm gonna use that as an example if I buy my first car from a motor dealership where I get great service love what they're doing when I want to buy a new car I'm going to go back to that dealership is that what we're aiming for as recruiters that that as I go through my career path every time I'm looking for something else I would come to you that's exactly that and and you know that's why can you mention I'll spoke about you know that constant engagement with candidates throughout the path and and there are certain things that you will not be able to get from just reading a CV until you engage with a person and and those are the soft things or the soft touch that we're looking for whereas you've got a client who says I'm looking for these type of behavioral skills those are not written on the CV you need to engage with a person to be able to suss out that information and if you look at what we do at EBSO is that we we encourage that before you become a so-called recruiter you need to go through a certain training so that you are able to to have that consultative mind when you are talking to candidates and being able to to give a better service to to your clients mm-hmm well I mean yeah I mean you guys have all got some serious experience and and letters and things behind your name can you busy you busy with your honors in industrial psychology yes you have a family you married I am an actual fact that this is not it there's a lot more behind all of this so I'm left with two modules to complete yeah but over and above my thin career baby I also serve on the National Skills Authority Board and also I'm a woman will chapter lead in Pretoria where we empower women with leadership development skills entrepreneurship skills we also I am involved with developing the unemployed graduates and introducing them to the grow with Google digital skills programs so yeah it's a passion to make sure that we we grow the skills of young South Africans young entrepreneurs women in the workplace women in business so there's a lot of work to be done out there sure I'm sitting here with this look on my face going wow when do you sleep

yeah we rest when we go to bed but that's the one thing and I am I am amazed because I was quite excited to be able to chat to you guys but just having you here in studio with me and talking to you it's very clear that you both very very passionate about this industry you have a love for this industry and I think that's wonderful we need more of this because as I said you mentioned it you know that the recruitment industry has become tarnished and they are those bad rotten apples and we need to get rid of them because I think that's part of the thing that's going to help our country to grow but now talking early and I said to you you're hoping somebody will be with you for their entire career path with the Millennials and the the Gen Z's and Gen X's and all the Gen's that I don't necessarily understand it has changed the sort of your time spent working at a specific company I remember you know when I told my parents I wanted to be on radio they were absolutely horrified and my father wanted to know when I was going to get a real job and how was I ever going to support a family and I said with my mouth and he did not believe this in with my voice and he was like he couldn't get his head around it because in those days you you went and you got a job and you had to either be a doctor a lawyer accountant or a banker that was it and I started off in the banking industry and I absolutely hated it but you were expected to just suck it up princess and then you work at a job you probably don't like for 30 40 years and then you retire the new generation are not like that they're going no no no tell me a bit about them have you had experience with these these guys well we call them the the generation see they want to be more connected yeah and I think again goes back to what can you are saying about you know the the employment or the employer branding they want to be associated with certain brands and seeing how a specific employer is connected to their employees so gone are those days where the person will stay in the same job or same company for 10 20 30 years you know it's it's there's been some a lot of evolving taking place within the the industry so people just want to be connected to what really aspires to them and I think that's why I'm saying that that that you know us as recruiters we need to have that understanding when you're sitting down with a candidate what are these persons aspirations what takes this person and then you are able to connect it to a specific employer for that I think for me just to add to that gone are those days where people just want to settle for a job people are looking for a career people are looking for something that's going to fulfill them something that's going to give them a purpose when they wake up every morning they don't have to drag themselves out of bed and that's what we drive I think it is so we place people in jobs where they see that as a as a career and not just a job because companies are looking for people who can come in at value love what they do and make a difference in what the you know in the whatever role they might be appointed in so it's very critical but also reality also things in in in we you know we find ourselves in an environment where job opportunities are not they readily available the unemployment rate is quite high therefore you might find that people will rather settle for I just need a job so that I can be able to put food on the table but we would we actually would like people to go for what they're passionate about because in that way you can just be like David who loves what he does loves talking you know what it's it's a tough world that we live in it's a tough job that you guys have because you know what in the country at the moment many many people will go I just want a job I don't care they just give me a job every single day it must be it must be hot baggy what are we doing though to to help these people into it to uplift up skill I'd I've been looking I mean I've been doing this show now this version of it for the last what this is second year maybe more I've done it longer but I've been looking for an answer and and you know how do we help our country because you know what I don't believe it's necessarily the government's job they have a role to play but but corporates and and the likes of you and I we need to be doing something oh are we doing it are we not what can we do I think what we're doing at the moment is to expose the job seekers the many unemployed people to carry a development opportunities or skills development opportunities where they can acquire a skill and then decide that how decide how they can monetize that skill without actually having to wait for someone to employ them so we talk entrepreneurship entrepreneurship it's not easy it's maybe it's easy to start a business but to make sure that you you you run a sustainable business it's you know it's something else so if we can have a skilled a lot of skilled maybe unemployed people then they can then evolve and transition into maybe starting up their their businesses but where you've you've got no access to you know skills that are required now where you can become a freelancer and end a bit of money here and there it does become a challenge hence you know we find ourselves working with the likes of you know Microsoft and Google to say here are the skills that you can access for free become a digital marketer set up your own business online and start making money out of it work with small SMEs help help them out you don't necessarily have to wait to be employed there's definitely opportunities out there but unfortunately a lot of the young people they would sit with I'm a graduate and I have to be employed and I have to be employed I don't know somewhere at a senior role with an office in a car in a cell phone in a whatever if we can sort of move to a space where people start to ask themselves what are the skills that I really have and what are the skills that are have acquired which are actually even transferable so I've started to be X but in this degree diploma that I have what are the skills that I can now transfer into being a social media influencer being someone who can start manufacturing and selling products so there's definitely there's the not kind of thing when we come back I'd like to talk a little bit about digital marketing digital recruitment and see where we are in terms of that because we are in the fourth Industrial Revolution everything's going online so let's talk where you guys are with that we'll be back with my special guests in just a bit it is what's involved mix 93.8 absolute pleasure to have you along with us tonight just a reminder if you didn't get to catch the whole show in the next couple of days it'll be up as a podcast as well as I mentioned earlier on a podcast now being downloaded in 14 different countries across the world so that is good if you are a podcast listener listening to this as a podcast thank you so much if you're streaming love to have you with us and of course DS TV channel 823 as well okay so just in terms let's wrap it up because suddenly we realized all there's other things we want to talk about as well it always happens like this digital wise in terms of digitally where is APSA going with that are you are you very involved in the electronic world so if you check out the last three conferences which we had most of the themes were around the digital space when it comes to recruiting and making sure that all the recruiters recruitment agencies as well as employers understand the impact of technology when it comes to recruiting so it's at the forefront of what we do as well as the human touch as Solu mentioned okay lovely quickly before we wrap up two more things that I think of are quite important you you mentioned we've talked about recruiters now and recruitment agencies but you're also an organization for employers let's talk to me a little bit about that yeah so basically the I think that idea is we we want to sort of like educate the employers to understand what really happens within the recruitment industry in terms of the processes and the second thing is to basically partner with employers in terms of because you find that other employers they do have recruiters in-house and we want to take them through in terms of let's say enabling you know the the internal recruiters in terms of the processes and trends the trends so essentially essentially both capacity up skill there isn't a company out there that trains recruiters like us so this is a premium opportunity for employers to actually sign up with abso and make sure that their recruitment teams are quite clued up so there's there's a lot of training for HR business partners for learning and development but more often you find that the group of recruiters talent admin administrators they do get a bit lost where else we provide a lot of upskilling as well as our annual conferences I mean there's a lot of content that which gets shared with the audience wonderful so now again if somebody wants to if I am a corporate medium-sized business small business whatever that goes hey listen I think this is something I'm interested in what is the website is that the best way to to get hold of you guys by the website as I said www.epso.org.za or they can invent all the information is up there I think that's the best it's APSO.org.za so APSO APSO.org.za you mentioned a conference is this conference going to be open to anybody or specifically recruitment industry people it's definitely open to everyone okay and we actually finalize in the theme but the the day of the conference will be the 12th of June 2020 okay at Incenten the wondrous the wondrous club oh with the wondrous club that's lovely nice venue that okay so that's the APSO conference does it run over just a day couple of days how does it work it's a jam-packed day of breakaway sessions international speakers yeah it's amazing yeah it's a combination of recruitment what is happening within recruitment the technology how do you embrace the technology and at the same time next year we will we will be hosting the world really employment Confederation right here in South Africa fantastic stuff well done guys and and congratulations all that info on the website APSO.org.za Connie thank you so much for coming in and having a chat to me I think we got so much more to talk about about recruitment etc etc so we might have to bring you guys back in the not too distant future but you guys thank you I really do appreciate it I wish you all the best going ahead and to each and every one of you before I go thank you for listening I'll catch you again next Monday