Solly Krok — Business man extraordinaire, Philanthropist, Walking to raise 108 million Rand

it is yet another edition of What's Involved. I've got a very special guest on the line with me at the moment and the gentleman is I believe celebrating today because as you know with this whole corona thing we are busy we're not in the studio I'm not in the studio yet so we do pre-record some things but celebrating his birthday today Sonny Crock how are you? I'm great I'm blessed I feel like a young man. Wonderful stuff 91 years young today um so so from all of us and from mix FM we want to wish you a very very happy birthday have you been having a good day so far? Big one. Have you been having a good day so far? Yes so far I was brilliant as my family brought me a fancy cake I should actually say fancy cake with the 91 on the top and the logo for keep the wolf on it keep the wolf from the door involved in emblazoned on the cake maybe we'll have an opportunity we can send you a picture of that later. That would be would be lovely so not only is it your 91st birthday today but we're also talking about something that I came across in the news a couple of days ago um and the fact that you are now wanting to raise 108 million rand to feed the hungry um and uh it's it's it's interesting that uh your venture is called keep the wolf from the door because it's actually it's an expression I haven't heard for a very long time and basically it means um to to keep hunger away am I correct? That's correct that's correct though the wolf typifies hunger. Wonderful stuff now Sholi before we get into into the project and the 108 million rand that you're planning to to raise um for those who don't know um tell us a little bit about soli cock and then um obviously born 91 years ago but but give us a bit of a history and who you are where you fit into the South African landscape because um there's a couple of things that I've learned that that I didn't know about you.

What did you what did you learn that you didn't know about me? Well I learned that um you are um the older of twins um because uh your brother essentially your twin brother was born 19 hours after you were born I had no idea about that yeah and said he crossed away six years ago my twin brother seven years ago yeah I know sad sad that um but you guys um you know give me a bit of an idea of where you came from in terms of of your life because um you know there's those people that would go oh the croc brothers everybody knows them and uh let me let me start from the beginning my my mother came from Lithuania and she arrived in South Africa my father had come a year previously and they conceived twins but my mother did not know that my brother that my twin brother was in was in her was in her womb stall and Samya which after she gave birth to me on the 28th of May she discovered to her surprise that she was getting another baby and luckily there was some woman that could my mother couldn't speak a word of English so she spoke that understood of course Yiddish and uh she would tell them and they'd have been a very famous doctor Dr. Gordon Grant arrived to deliver my twin brother and with a 1929 Ford motorbike there was and was black that was in normal color for them and they deliver my twin brother my twin brother A.B. always says his younger person say he was a gentleman he said after you sir so I used to answer him especially when we used to talk about it like I said well I was brave enough to visit the new world see if I can see if it was safe for you to come out but that was 1929-1912 I was obviously a baby was the year of the great depression the world markets crashed people were jumping out of the skyscrapers in America we'd lost their fortunes and that was the period then 10 years later 1939 world war brackets with Germany declared war and I lived and then I'm 10 years old now recollect my late father begging his sister that lived in Lithuania with two kids so matter of fact my um my father wouldn't marry my mother until my mother's brother agreed to marry his sister he loved his sister he begged he begged his sister and husband and two little kids come to South Africa they said now we're doing okay in Rakhshik Rakhshik was this small town in Lithuania near Latvia and now that we didn't and they alas were massacred and when I visited um the area that in 1995-1996 we'd had a tour guard the first thing the tour guard says

we nothing is the Russians the Russians allied with with the uh Nazis to massacre the people and and I remember that tour we she took us with the at the at the feudal lord and the feudal lord lived on a hill with two two rivers float floating on the side of east I asked and she said this river here was red with blood the way they massacred the Jews and and shot them in that way that was a dramatic so I lived to hear that in 1939 then I was fortunate enough 10 years later in 1948 the establishment of the establishment of the state of Israel and then I was really a younger man and then what happened 70 years later the tide of anti-semitism rose around the world and the hatred and anti not only that the anti-hate of in America a country that's democratic free where people float maybe beeline to go to to uh America and they're also becoming an anti-racist group not only for Jews but for Muslims and other people too that's the word I've lived in but and then in 2020 I've survived I've survived to see this corona epidemic that shut down the world the most I mean it's just not it's not believable that I should be self-privileged to live through 91 years and see the corona virus so matter of fact I had a grandfather that I've never met my mother's father came out to South Africa he should come to the to the Spanish flu between in July 1919 that missed that killed about 50 million people according to the records so I'm around and safe and please God right now I'm blessed I've got good health and I'm looking to I'm active although might be locked down I'm active thinking all day talking about businesses but I came across I came across the poverty-stricken world and I'm amazed and actually surprised at the humanitarian aid that's people from all walks of life in South Africa gather together to create teams clans what you call them here and to collect food and deliver them to the to the townships is that but look the need the need is also amongst the white with this white population they're a poor anyway so when this was happening I was so incredibly impressed but then I said to myself and I said to Adrian go from Discovery Bank one day so now I'm wondering about something the poor were poor before the covert and needed help the poor are going to remain after the covert and they need help so so I got thinking and 18 18 challenged me says why don't you work with your age you're 91 years you're going to be 91 years on December the May the 28th why don't you take a challenge to walk you said about 400 kilometers 400 meters times 91 to 36 kilometers so I said well at first I thought I was crazy I've never walked in my life I've never run in my life I've never been to a gym in my life I've done recently I've done a bit of exercise with a with a by kinetics so anyway I accepted the challenge it was very tough in the beginning and fortunately I live in a street called Winston Lane and there's an enclosed area between the streets and that from the from the enclosed gate to the bottom gate which closes up the street in hurlingdom railroad and we measured the distance and my son started encouraging me that distance I need to do six of those laps or three round laps to achieve one kilometer and and the first day took me out there I was just I was just a ghost as I got halfway and each lap is 170 and 170 meters as I got halfway oh my god can I make then I saw the distance the distance to the next gate wasn't that far so I'm mindset myself that I got to do things and the business lesson I want to tell people you're even in lifestyles throughout the world life when you're not in business sometimes you must start off small you mistake baby steps to get to your first goal or you must only might often chew what you can and that was amazing because if I had to go further than 170 kilo I don't think I would have reached the target I don't think I would have been mindset to continue this program but every time I got there I said oh it's only that step and it's an amazing thing what I've achieved now the other day I did four kilometers because as I get as I get there and I say oh and I'll return oh and then slowly two out of six and then I get two three so what I'm saying generally people should have to do baby steps should take steps steps small steps to even even great businessmen should do that and then grow from that grow from accelerating your progress and this came as a conclusion to me how I managed to do this walk now so I've got a complete 91 by next Tuesday next Thursday and I'm now I'm now doing about I've done about 65 so I'll need a problem another 20 story wonderful stuff when we come back we are talking to you an absolute to my mind a legend somebody that I feel very privileged you have a chat to and I and I feel this is an amazingly inspiring man Sally Kock when we come back we'll chat some more I want to chat a little bit about what he's done in his life in terms of business because a very humble man he is we'll be back in just a bit right so we're back it is what's involved and my special guest that I'm chatting to um Sally Kock Sally I think it's fascinating what you're doing and I think it's it's an incredible challenge that you're undertaking um but this is not the first challenge that you that you've had in your life I mean you you've established some some pretty impressive businesses through your life and you've come from a very humble beginning talk to me about that well let me say I grew up in a family where my father was in trapezoidal he had a trading store south of Johannesburg called you know area called region spark south of the city deep mines which might be a monument and my father used to tell me I drilled into my myself my brothers rather rather rather rather be an interpreter and your own business even if you earn half that half that sum of money rather than work for a company or a boss and be your own boss so that drilled into me and I recollect even like that today I remember when my twin brother and I we went to forest high school we lived in the south of Johannesburg there are we remember we had a teacher I think her name was mrs. McGregor and she said to my brother and I we were in the same class she says what are you going to do when you're big so I remember my brother and I said I don't know how we said why we said I know we would like to open a factory to bottle cosmetics and medicines and products so that link it in the back of our heads so when my twin brother qualified as a pharmacist and I did accountancy my brother was in indentured to a chemist called Henry Moss in wondrous street and the street flowing from that north street where he had a chemist shop was it was a pathway from the Alexander bus rank to the jenas big station and the fans of commuted black communities would walk on that street so my brother always used to quit because around the corner from the wondrous street pharmacy where my brother worked for Henry Moss there was the was the trans valor's offices in I think it's in plain street in my brother city and the editor was for wood so my brother used to always quit when he used to deliver prescriptions to these offices if you knew what he was going to turn around he might he might have delivered rather poison that was his common and then what happened is my Henry Moss was a musician he had a wife he managed he had a child they had one baby and then he said he can't manage the second chemist shop was called Devon pharmacy in in the in pre in the north street so so we're in trap you know I had a I had a savings we had a savings we had a I had a savings in a book I saved that from a measly pay it to the county office I think it was three pound a month or seven at one time I'm talking about it in 1944 or something or even before and so we saved that and we called that we called that booklet twins twice as good because because my brother and I have pictures where we were twins you cannot believe it incredible look into his long hair and my mother says people used to run often we were wielding the premise so we used we used that double photograph of the twins or my brother and I to put it behind some of your product rankings and the first product we started doing in in the chemist shop and incidentally let me just come back it was called Devon pharmacy it was I Henry Moss had started a range of pharmaceutical products and mixtures and it was marketed while the hawker chains we offer an orchestra to buy the brand gun seller for the undercount so that was like the core of what we took out so we took over these business and immediately we had we had it like a basis of what to do we had a mainly mainly what he's producing that little chemist shop was far was pharmaceutical pharmaceutical mixtures on that and I remember that one of the products anyway so what happened was but what happened next to our chemist shop was an optician his name was super around the corner from the camera around the corner from New York street in in Delbert street was an optician called Rosenberg and they wanted to compete in the skin lightning market which was a raise a big raise a big huge seller in South Africa at the time the major sellers was kadoo creams and butane and they wanted to do that so they had a pharmaceutical company outsourced the manufacture of what they called a night cream and a day cream and that was they used to come to our menu called sauna products I don't think they still exist so and so what happened is Rosenberg and super coined the name super rose from the name super hyphen with a rose in the middle and Rosenberg the further part of his name and that became super rose and then somehow then when we came along because we were quite aggressive they just they didn't they just didn't they had to market the product at all so we bought the product and we paid them we committed to pay them a thousand pounds or just pensions and pay those as we committed to pay them a thousand pounds and even jokes someone super immigrated to Los Angeles said to my son your father's told me a hundred dollars a hundred pounds of that of that thousand pound deal I can't remember that that's obviously a joke

how do we compete the marketplace was flooded and also we had in the chemical we had a field what what the consumer wanted to buy and they would often come into the shop because the the custom and and and the the mindset that that they got to use a cream to be lighter because if they lighter they could get on more in this in the apartheid world and be accepted more and they would all and and then when we worked in the shop and and supplied these um products we saw the the trend what was going you'd really just bought the super rose range of products although it wasn't a great range at that stage and we discovered that they would have choice a customer would walk in there they would buy Karoo creams which was a huge seller it was owned by an off-the-grants family that in middleberg but it was an incredible seller but it was mercury-based the formula mercury-based but the customer would walk in it and buy a night cream which you'd call that to be the mercury-based night cream and would buy a vanishing cream for example they would mix and match if we'd buy Karoo cream something they would use pons vanishing cream and pons vanishing cream was for the for the daytime the Karoo cream no no for the date Karoo cream was for the for the daytime and the vanishing cream was for the night time when they cleaned off their face so we up again then there was another competitor called buton the Araman family owned that as a second seller but them but you got no idea the size of the market so how can we compete and we were adventurous we started getting a lot of hawkers we guaranteed the hawkers sales if they can't sell we had a book with major concert we'll exchange you with your cancer and then also started because those days with the apartheid world hawkers and travelers were scared to get out of their zone in case they get arrested because i used to see it with my own eyes open these what did they call the black blood riot team to cause from the police come up and disload them anyway so i used to sign and go to the past office in delver street in janice we can sign hundreds of passwords when you create my item we create a certificate to give the give the make it awesome we've got he's got 40 minutes modern we need to feed by my son he thinks i'm not talking quick enough sorry you guys are fine you know what i'll i'll be the first one to say when time's up but we're doing fine at the moment okay great so what happened was that the um we we knew the trend now also to save money and to do things i used to attend auctions i mean i got the habits from my late father he used to attend the auction and one day he said you better be careful me to attend because he attended once an auction and he bought a huge parcel of shoes when he brought the shoes back to the house he got a shock they were all left foot shoes so he learned to listen sometimes to expect to expect the product that you're buying anyway so i had to happen to go to auctions so one day i used to get options to buy shelving shoes not shoes but shelving secondhand motor cost for delivery etc etc so i got an auction one day and i think it was ag north at the time that come there was the company from america that and now agent of the saffron came that had license to market ponds vanish cream and other products south africa so i went to that auction one day i went to the auction one day and i'm at i acquired a mixed bag of toiletry items and lotions when we searched through the lotions and that we found a liquid lotion there with an fda formula that says you put this on it helps helps your complexion and then we looked at it we looked at it we said oh my god this could be a so we use that we my twin brother adjusted the formula and we called that super roast pimple and pimple and complexion lotion now how do we market how do we compete with with the giants of the industry at that time and i don't know how we came up to this formula but we realized that we have to piggyback and this is a lesson that if you live listening sometimes you can piggyback against a successful product the perfect example right there is the sales people making huge monies by creating add-ons for the cell phone especially wallets and etc so what did we do somewhere in we we reformulated the night cream and the day cream and we had a double soap for dice a day soap and a night soap but we and we learned two things we did two things what we said was every time you used your favorite cream we didn't knock the opposition cleanse your face with super eyes and pimple lotion we didn't we didn't knock the opposition a lot of people like them it's like knocking the opposition we wanted to piggyback on the success of them so in other words every time a guy bought bought a career cream or upon fashion we said use so cleanse your face night and day was your preparation and then also what we did near the alexander bus bank in the station we decided to give out thousands of thousands of samples and the samples created an addiction and then then we knew we had a breakthrough when the late louis shill's father in vid bank vid bank ordered a hundred thousand i got a shock on my life and i took the coin i went to visit them i visited to see what he was doing and that from that day onwards we created an incredible product that dominated the market we added about 95 percent of the market and and the leisure was a great great seller later on later on years later on there was a part of the regime and the pressure was put on them the property fda approved formula and we were forced to close that product but the lesson i'm trying to give here to people is that is that people in today's age with it was particularly with the digital world you can get one percent of the international market a half percent you can have a great visit you're no more confined to working working from home and the doorstep down the road for you you attack the world market and organization like amazon and others will deliver the goods for you they may sometimes you can do deals with new age you can deliver them from yourself so it's another world of marketing today so i'm not quite clued up with the new world of marketing but i believe and my lesson yet is don't be afraid of opposition if you fail get up from the floor if you're a boxer get up and come from the count and i think you could succeed in today's world but you have to have a positive approach to business you have a mindset you mustn't be scared of failure and if you don't try how do you know how are you going to know if you know unfortunately so many people are just frightened of no it's been done before that's the question it's been it doesn't matter if you're in it do a better job so my lesson is please if you if you can have a pro that makes sense and sometimes you can piggyback it on a on an existing brand you can win on that subject sizes and and also i also say in in in the commodity items or lotions and that offer samples samples is something the best way to get a market i get a share of my market wonderful stuff so it's it's so fascinating chatting to you and just think back through those those times and and the things that you've lived through and what you've done um i know i sort of grew up around the the cosmetics world my dad used to work for um a company called cheese bro ponds in those days um so with with your talking about the ponds vanishing cream i know exactly what you were talking about there absolutely fascinating when we come back though um i want to talk to you a little bit more about this uh this project that you've got going and specifically about um the 108 million because it it sounds like a strange number so when we come back we'll we'll have a little bit more of a chat with soli it is what's involved and uh we've got my special guest uh celebrating as we're recording this celebrating his 91st birthday we'll be back in just a bit but it is what's involved we're back my special guest uh uh soli croc joining us and we're talking about uh the fascinating laugh that he's led and i don't i don't really want to gloss all over this but i mean you you and your brother were responsible for for the construction of the apartheid uh museum as well weren't you yeah i was the i was the main creator of it yeah and and then of course the gold reef city complex as well you've you've certainly been around the business world and i think um you've done some some incredible stuff and you you've also you know you've been quite vocal over the years in and particularly going back in time um in terms of the anti-apartheid movement i mean the old the old uh old governments you know you you weren't the best of friends with them um but but we've we've moved on let me just tell you a story about that petite it just reminded me we we we had a project called mary king we cried the rights from american company there and to market it was a cosmetic range so we we decided to air it on on on television on television and so we hired annalyn creole she was miss south africa at that period and patrice patrice but tip his elder sister she had one africa south is the apartment so we decided to put them both on the tv slot marketing that we talked about marketing marketing a range american cosmetics that was arranged originally from america and you cannot believe the chaos we called in the in the in the government and the police and the how dare we break the apartments by mixing a white girl with a black lady and to market the product that and eventually we had to withdraw the the tv ad but that's the top of the but we we we we we we branched a lot of apartheid laws i used to employ people especially official members from the italian firm and give them licenses to operate i told it restore around the country so we did that but that that type of approach because although obviously i lived here but i was totally anti anti-apartheid world but of course i would have some of the i imagine you know i mean you you you are of the jewish of the jewish faith you have jewish extraction and you've seen the kind of hatred for the jewish people over the years and obviously when you came to south africa you were like no more none of that

well no it's always existed i don't remember my father shot me in regent's park and the africans they left my father because they speak their languages when my father in the 1967 war when israel conquered conquered the charity against all the arab countries around that my father used to brag and say oh you see what we jews did look how we wrapped at the end really so the i mean i'm able to do this i wanted the africans just mr croc garden mens as new yoda those people aren't jews hula israelis they were separate after the jew the jew was perceived never to be a fighter to fight back so that's what that was the culture but i must say that africans generally like the jews that would have a jewish doctor they have a jewish lawyer they just said that jewish lawyer they accepted but even if you take the area where i lived it was a gastric all the training operations on chemists butchered down other than one one greek that had a cafe and the portuguese god because the portuguese at the time dominated the food and vegetable shops but that's the atmosphere we came from yeah wonderful stuff sorry talk to me about the 108 million rain that you want to raise though why how did that because i was using the in the jewish language word chai cha stands for 18 and 18 for chai means life so i wanted to bring in the life the life angle people should live you've got to understand life is for the living the debt but let me tell you how i got to this idea um i was amazed and surprised and honored to be part of this african jewish community but not jews and other and other members of the community when they started forming teams what they called clans to pull together groceries and food items and then deliver to the townshes to the poor and of course when the advent of covid it became a mushrooming of of unemployment parties so you had you had 20 30 40 different little teams and clans providing food items so i said to myself one day and i spoke to atian gober i said you know it's worrying me the poor were poor before the covert they're going to remain poor after the covert we have to do something for the long term and of course we're going to do something long term then somewhere talking talking eventually i can i was i was i sent a note to my daughter about the project my kids live over the street she lives in london with some kids i said you know i don't know the poverty that's going to that's a showing we're going to do something to keep the wolf away from the door some of those shots that's the name you should call your program so that's why we call to keep the wolf away from the door what a surprise me that makes me so many people don't even know what that means but that's what we did so so what we did was then what happened was i started working on plans and that and then i decided that i must partner with two groups group one is african tickle run by mark labneh that's got three of them and they got quite a big budget they raise about 150 million rand a year to execute their budget and and then i said i said to myself oh what what what what really is the mission statement of keep the wolf from the door i said people are poor we got to teach we got to teach people and it is being done in south africa teach people how to farm how to have home in this is a great and that's that's thought based that mission statement based on a famous rabbi and a credible sage world known including it but the muslim world nine lived 900 years ago his name was my mother these he's quoted all over the world and his motto and quote was to give a man a fish you feed him for a day if you teach a man how to fish you feed him for his lifetime so that became the motto and and and the mission statement of keep the wolf from the door so our plan is to raise funding to a at this stage probably of the assuming we raise the total that i'm talking but that total doesn't have to be raised in one week can take a year or two years the time i'm talking about is what we what we probably will apportion the immediate requirements if it's x amount of money a million dollars for example is raised we think about 65 to 70 will probably go to immediate food food campaigns properly structured and monitored and the balance will go to train people how to plant out of out of become sustainable on their own even in in even if from even if we succeed with 10 to convert the person to be sustainable and have their own income streams we'll have succeeded that's a major task but we have to teach people to fend for themselves as a matter of fact one of the campaigns that uh african tycoon does also in some of the campaigns they ask the recipient for a small also to pay some smaller token maybe 10 of the value of the food because it's one of the dangers of giving charity when you you could write a precedent and the recipient was expected every month they won't even bother to get along with so there's a balance how to give people poverty how to manage it now to educate them to find they find their way to make their own living it is what's involved my special guest is sully croc we'll be back with more of sully in just a bit it is what's involved and we're back with more of sully croc i remember that uh that one of my mentors uh said to me quite a few years ago he said i must always remember there's a very big difference between giving somebody a hand up and a hand out and i think that that is so true in what you're saying is is you're looking with this project to give people a hand up so that they can become self-sustained it's not even a question and i'm fortunate that the partner that that's experiencing this is a professor dr rudolph and as a matter of fact his wife has created a whole jingle and a musical jingle that we'll start playing to excite people to be part of this program but but it's true it's true sometimes i don't know if people i don't know if people are lazy or just accept so i think the program that we even have to have to execute it but you know you you know people ask me what are you going to do i see in life you're going to do three things execute execute execute because there are thousands of patents in the world and and and and and trademarks relying that in the patent officers the lawyers of the will have they never seen the light of day and that's because you have to execute execute execute and also i just want to make one one other comment here is that i was once asked i once asked a rabbi what should i teach my children and he said three words of pearls of wisdom example example example and what i'm trying to say i hope i can be an example to the rest of the world all the listeners today of having the mindset and the positivity to live your dreams and you've got a visualize you've got your visualized success and your dreams will come true well i think that is some very very sage advice um now you're looking certainly on the fourth of june i believe um to to complete your your your milestone your your last walk of um of the distance you said you were going to be walking but you're going to have some business leaders with you as well um that that yes we invited someone my co-ordinator we've got Adrian Gore coming we've asked him patrice matsepe i'm not quite sure the final list because also there's been lockdown can we come with could we you know this whole thing has been conceived three and our four weeks ago this never existed this whole campaign hasn't and it's already going vital around the world with my children in america and others have started sending out setting up tear sheets on and press reports so it will get a life and i know it's a hell of a target that i'm that i'm trying to achieve but in dollar terms it's only six million dollars in dollar terms but but i also have we're up against a major disadvantage is that the so-called wealthy of the world today have become poor they have their own properties they don't get the rent in they can't pay the mortgages it's a major difference today but it's a challenge and the challenge doesn't have to be achieved overnight i've done some gravity in one man because i've achieved over a year i'll be grateful but there are heavy hitters net worth people that my one of my my complaints became all life it's at the 80 20 rule i believe 80 to be our funds will come from corporates or wealthy people so i'm gonna i'm gonna start marketing and i don't even tell my committee at all the teams are now helping me that i want i'm based everything on my 91 years so i want nine hundred and ten thousand rand rands from wealthy people around america and england and other parts of the world which is only fifty five thousand dollars and that sounds loud loud but i'm sure that i'll achieve that but it's going to take time hard work and a lot of marketing a lot of marketing episodes so i have no doubt i can excite the world that i've got to continue walking johnny walker walking case but you know what i think so in particularly in south africa i have no doubt that you're going to achieve this 108 million rand but i think um just if we look at south africans and how in times of crisis we pull together as south africans and that racial divide seems to slip away i think you're going to find a lot of um normal everyday people going look i can't give a lot but i'm going to to to make that donation as well um is there is there a website or something that people can go to um they created the website and a facebook page the the website is w that keep the wolf from the door that's the web dot org keep the wolf from the door dot org okay brilliant and that's got all the because i know you've got some some details about where people can actually make deposits well i'm just excused i'm going to sneeze oh where's my tissues okay i'm just sneezing young man give me a minute okay i've sneezed you i'm back i'm back for your attention it's wonderful i love it i love it when when when i get called young man it makes it makes me feel young again thank you soli okay david let me just tell you also what we've really innovative that i did we did some major major fundraising programs we did a thing called the mock weeding where my brother and i acted and that was done by those famous people that i remember john brickel and um i forgot other guys now for a minute which was your name martin

yeah we are burke we did we did that show 19 times and every person that what i did there is the clever part is we invited all businessmen top businessmen to act as power holders and that my brother and that because we had alka that was an incredible success story we did another thing called million x so what we did we tried to create things with them a million x was at a mock ship price when their shares were out and we had the cheek then to raise to us for a thousand and i'm talking of 38 40 years ago to us for a thousand and also a company the mock wedding site we had we sold advertising with caricatures and we charged also a thousand as a caricature so we did something things that that but also what i think we did we inspired other people to create programs for collecting for charity and of course we supported the charity i mean we funded most of the production to those but thank god we were successful we only stopped the million x but even the government kept it kept a shut eye when we lent that was a type of raffle the the million x we used to draw the prizes and we only stopped that when the lottery and so that became legal that program wow okay so um you're going to continue walking i'm going to let you go now to enjoy the rest of your birthday sully thank you so much for taking your time i appreciate it you're making you'd make an appeal so let's sully keep the wolf from the door please dig deep and give a contribution and if you and as i say african text break also so please do so we'll try and get you the information thank you very much give me the opportunity to talk to you wonderful stuff sully you enjoy your day remember it's uh keep the wolf from the door dot org um we're going to be talking about it on mix fm uh all the details are there and we do make this appeal help sully to keep the wolf can i get a recording of this absolutely what we'll do is we'll send something through to you okay thank you very much thank you dave keep well keep well thank you thank you so much okay bye bye