Dr Thando Sibanda — The 4th Industrial Revolution

David Watts on Mix 93.8 Monday nights it's what's involved I'm David Watts and an absolute pleasure to be with you again as usual and I say this on every Monday night because I'm always that excited about the guests the people that I get to speak to and tonight my special guest in studio is Dr. Tandu Sibanda, how's it? Can we can we forego the the formality and can I call you Tandu? Sure, sure, love it, let's do it. We were talking earlier on I mean we first met three four years ago and it was it was one of those things again we met we got along we chatted and over the last little while you've just seemed to have gotten what is the what is the right word traction in what you do but I mean suddenly and you've always had great stuff and you've always been incredibly passionate about giving back to people and about talking and particularly about our country and South Africa in general and now to see you where you are doing sure well we're going to be talking tonight about the fourth Industrial Revolution which is fascinating to me but before we get there let's find a little bit about who Tandu is sort of you know the the doctor part fascinates me because you I would describe you am I correct in saying you're a lifelong learner yeah yeah so talk me through it because I mean you didn't one day wake up and say okay I'm gonna put doctor in front of my name and do things so tell us a little bit let's let's find out who you are sure I guess I've always been a connoisseur of life learning fascinates me growth is one of my core values you know and I've always believed that you may not be responsible for where you start off but you are definitely responsible for where you end up before you end up you know and so we all have a responsibility to make sure that we progress in life I mean I remember the time that we we we met I mean my initial background was in media I mean I yeah I worked a lot as a producer as a television and film producer director quite a couple of years and that did a lot of stuff with you as ABC got lunch you know and all of those yeah until until I go to a place where I realized that I actually have a passion not just for telling stories but but also for shaping frameworks in terms of how people think and how people communicate just helping people get us unstuck in life you know a lot of people know where they want to go but they don't know with how to get there and so that's when I realized you know what let me let me let me get going so I went back to school and and and I did my life coaching certification then I did my master coaching certification which we were both talking about I was brave enough because I've also got the life coach you wanted to turn up for the master life coach as well man alive I don't know how you did it with a family as well yeah yeah it's a it's a it's a lot I remember when I was doing my master coaching I really take some vitamin B shots I mean it was just that hectic you know but but I mean I I went through that then I I then signed up with with with the John Maxwell Company Africa then did leadership development leadership coaching and training then I qualified as a as a as a John Maxwell leadership coach then I went back to school I went back to university again and then did my masters in leadership and management and then from there I did not stop there I remember one of my professors doctor doctor Dr. Libisi say to me you you're nearly there I mean once you have a master's continue you are nearly there you know and so and so I I pushed on and and and did my my my PhD in leadership and management and that's where the doctor comes from it's an amazing amazing amount of work and I mean to see you sitting here today and we very lucky you've got your lovely wife and son in the studio with us as well to see how much and and you know to see how much work you've put into this to get you to where you are today and and often with my guests and somebody said to me other day every time you speak to somebody you always talk about the challenges why don't you just talk about the good stuff but I think that's what molds us and you certainly have had your face a share of challenges as well getting to where you are today you still not where you want to be obviously yeah yeah yeah but I mean it has not been an easy ride Oh absolutely not absolutely not I think I think the first thing that one needs to understand is that when you have a vision for for yourself and for your life that vision is not automatically imprinted on everybody around you and so and so a lot of times you've got to carry your own vision and you have to carry the drive and the passion for your own vision because it's not everybody who will cheer you on it is not everybody who really believes that you have what it takes to get there you know and so those are just some of the things that I've had to contend with you know we thought well I can bring value here and somebody thinks no you pretty much cannot you know and then you have to pick yourself up and realize that you know what I'm so much bigger than than anything else because I can see where I want to go I carry the drive for my own vision yeah well I mean you know both been in a very similar position to that way in our quest for learning yeah we were we were signed up we were on this whole you know we're gonna learn and and also at the end of the day that kind of fizzled out a bit like a damn squid and and I don't know how you felt after the process but I walked away and I thought she said am I really that bad I mean wow okay I kind of thought I was all right and then you know and then eventually after a while I went no actually no no no no no I'm not gonna bind to your beliefs right right you were in the in that instance in exactly the same place yes yes absolutely you see you see a belief system is very very powerful I mean a belief system it actually develops like like a table you know you know like the legs of a table you know it starts off as an idea somebody sells you an opinion once you bite that's leg one and then if somebody else say for example someone say you know you're very slow you know and then you know you try to eat at home mommy says you know you are slow you're the last to finish you go to school you you you run with other kids they say no you're slow and then you start waking and your supervisor says you're slow the moment three or four people you don't say you are slow and you start to believe that it becomes pretty much entrenched in your subconscious mind and then the challenge is that if you if you don't give yourself a new narrative you may end up believing that that that that you're slow and then that affects everything else you do in life because it's now a belief system and so and so I think it was it was it's it's always very important that when you hit those laws and you and you find that things are not waking out evolve a very positive narrative for yourself that comes from just a core belief of your greater self and I think you've hit the nail on the head there and it's something that I've touched on numerous times is you know when people are not at their best when people make bad decisions when people end up in bad situations and we talking right across the spectrum it's because of this compelling vision and I think that's a theme that runs through our country at the moment is that there are so few people that actually do have this compelling vision about where we can be you know we however many years we are now into our into our democracy and people are going oh well nothing will ever change but it's not I mean what got us to that point in 1994 was that believe one man's vision that you bought into absolutely absolutely absolutely so good place to start compelling vision yes and then now we're gonna move on and we'll do that in just a little while to to this fourth industrial revolution which absolutely fascinates me because I missed the first couple so to be part of this one I'm very very excited my especially my special guest in studio with me this evening Dr. Tandu Cebanda we are talking the fourth industrial revolution back with you on what's involved in just a bit it is what's involved tonight we're talking to Dr. Tandu Cebanda and we're talking the fourth industrial revolution so let's jump right in Tandu what on earth is the fourth industrial revolution because I don't want to miss this one absolutely you know I I I remember coppers drops the the chairperson of the world economic forum in Davos gave it a very interesting pretty much he gave us an interesting explanation he says look we stand on the brink of a technological revolution much like nothing else we've ever seen before I mean in its form in its scope and in just the way it is unfolding you know why because it's a fusion of technologies it is a disruption dimension to it but it also is a fusion of technologies I mean pretty much the main thing to understand about the fourth industrial revolution is that we we have been evolving and where we are right now in terms of in terms of the revolutions is that we are at a very disruptive when a disruptive age we're in a very highly advanced age and we are looking at official intelligence you know we are looking at quantum computing it's very interesting and it is a lot of implications for businesses today but also does it because they are people and I mean I am at let's call it a more mature age these days and I often have used to turn around and then some I ended up in this whole sort of media electronics business but I was like what is this Facebook that people speak of in this and that in the next thing is it something that is is literally going to change lives in terms of jobs as well because surely with this kind of technology jobs as we know them are going to become redundant oh absolutely absolutely in fact it has began to to change jobs in fact when you look at the whole evolution of it is that if you remember the first industrial revolution that was in in 1760 to 1840 that one was pretty much focusing on now on on on the birth of the steam steam engine using water to mechanize production and so we saw the factory system being born then and then we moved on to the second revolution which was using electrical power to create mass production that's where we saw pretty much the the the assembly line coming into into play you know pretty much mass automation coming up then we went into the third industrial revolution which which then used electronics and information technology to automate production you know then we started seeing amazing things we you know your your cell phones coming up super fast technologies and then came in the fourth industrial revolution which is which is which is a combination of those and just from the sheer speed of technological advancement and and and progress we are actually at a place where a lot of jobs I mean who knew there would be an uber technician you know or or a cloud technician cloud computing quantum cloud computing so a lot of businesses as we know them I mean right now if you look at AI I mean you've got ropers that are flipping burgers I mean you've got you know drones delivering pizzas to people's doorsteps and in medical supply so the world has really changed this reminds me of a movie I don't know if you've if you've seen it or heard of it it's Steven Spielberg's latest one ready player one where everybody gets into this virtual reality world called the Oasis and in that you do you literally see the drones delivering pizza etc etc it's it's fascinating for me but it's it's also terrifying and I can imagine South Africa is so often being referred to as a third world country how are we because this is what you speak on this is your passion yes and you do sort of engage with corporates at top level on this yes how is South Africa in your experience how are we dealing with this so we are we doing what South Africans are famous for and sticking our hands in our heads in the sand and hoping it's gonna just not affect us or our corporates proactive I mean I would think to myself now at my age if I was still in the job market if I was still an employee I would find this a very very scary time absolutely I think one of the key challenges of the of the of the of the of the fourth Industrial Revolution and where we find ourselves as business people and certainly as citizens is that it's it's it's finding and it's hitting a lot of us you know unexpectedly if you look at for example the education system I would say that there are major challenges there because we are still using the traditional system of learning and we are raising up our children and taking them through a school system that is already redundant as we speak to it you know because a guy finishes with with with them with my trick right now unemployment is it is it is it what 50% in terms of the in terms of young people so there are a lot of challenges already that we're seeing it so it is quite and it is quite a scary time and I think as a as a nation and as business people especially as business people and it is it is an imperative that that we understand our business is adapting you know are we are we are we are we moving to where things are looking for example the issue with e-learning a lot of platforms right now have moved to e-learning in terms of your first and your and your second worlds but but here we you know you're still having mindset challenges when you want to move systems from from from the analog and where we are into into the into the into the digital sphere would you talk about that I had I had a meeting the other day with one of the big construction companies and they wanted some trainings and I said so listen we can do X Y and Z for you but why don't we look at giving it a sort of proportion of it over to e-learning we've got the platform we can create all your courses we can put it on there we can do the video component we can even do coaching for you via the internet and they kind of looked at me and they were and the start of the meeting is that they wanted to go and move with technology but when I suggested this to them they were horrified and they turn around and went hang on now just a second is it not better what why can't you come to us for for two days training and then you come and do it here in person and I was thinking to myself now and you mentioned that I can imagine you know I'm fortunate enough to have been in this industry where I am now and I've learned and I've grown with it yes but to say to somebody well I don't have to be there you know log on there we go there's a service sitting probably in this mythical place called the cloud that nobody actually knows what it does and and you can access this information and it's just as good or better than having us there because then it's learning at your own pace rather than us coming there pumping information at you and walking away how are you finding that because I'm finding there is an interest but this people are still very nervous yes remember remember people are naturally adverse to change I mean that's why when whenever a new concept or a new platform comes in humans our learning system is built on the principle of repetition and so what we repeat we learn and what we learn we adapt to and what we adapt to you know pretty much once we've assimilated it that's that's who we are and so we don't like change even even when you go to you know when you go to a shore the city you sit on you don't you don't want to change you know much when you go next week you want to sit on the same seat you want to eat the same food you want to do why because we are adverse to change and that's why I always say you need to change before you have to you know because if you change after you have to it's always a loss there and so we find that there's still a lot of mental antagonism you know to to adapting and and to adaptation I mean look at what happened to the post office you know they never saw the email coming you know and and and and lost a key part of their business to get what happened to Kodak they you know they they never saw the digital camera coming you know and and and and they lost a very big part of their of their of their of their of their market share so that happens a lot when when when people are adverse to change and they're not proactive in embracing change I think that's one of the key challenges that that that were facing right now we were saying look make sure that your business is adapting well or your business is ready for this for this Industrial Revolution because there are a lot of implications for where we are today so Turner getting back to this now so this is obviously something that you're passionate about so you've studied a lot about it goodness knows you've spent enough time studying and and you speak on this how you know when you go into corporates how are they responding to this looming fourth Industrial Revolution are they are they embracing it is there some sort of resistance to change it's more it's more fear than anything else it's really more fear and and and concern but but there is definitely a positive appreciation of the effect that you know it's the sound of inevitability that's that's that's coming through because the reality is that automation is taking over remember when you walked into a bank five years ago you know there were tellers or tenors or they were there all those bank tellers and now we are using automated teller machines I mean when you go into the bank it's really to pretty much speak to a consultant but but but not to stand in a in a teller's line and so there is some of that change happening in the background but when I when I when the the biggest challenge is of course to get stuff members to see the vision to see where things are going so there's a lot of challenges there to say look let's catch on to where everything else is going but I think by and large just just the speed of the world and the fact that we we are not isolated as a country in terms of business I mean a lot of companies do business with with with other businesses overseas within the first world context and so you find that these these that pressure that says guys let's let's let's up the game you know but it's really up to everybody that's part of the value chain you know as as people that are involved in the process you know to catch it and be excited about it fantastic stuff my guest in the studio dr. Tundra subanda talking about the fourth industrial revolution we're gonna talk more about that when we come back David Watts on mix 93.8 chatting to my guest dr. Tundra subanda and we're talking about the fourth industrial revolution and I said we're gonna talk more about this but as I went into this I just I recall something just not so long ago I was I was watching a documentary on Detroit in the States motor city yeah and how that entire city almost has become like a crumbling run now because of the lack of vision focus willingness to change and and there's these buildings and massive massive industrial buildings that are derelict now people have moved away the place is literally crumbling down yeah now we talk about this fourth industrial revolution so many things are changing AI is coming in yeah you know there's there's automation to greater levels than then we thought about you mentioned earlier on the banking system now yeah when I'd sort of gotten in and started my working career that's where you went yeah you know there was very much this culture in our country as its doctor lawyer banker something like that that you have to do yeah and we had ten tellers in the branch we had savings clocks we had savings on an investment there was a massive thing now you walk into the bank I mean the other day I showed my age because I walked into one of the banks and I got sort of greeted by this computer screen at the front that says what are you here for and I'm like to a real person where's the real person button you take a ticket sit and wait yeah you know and then everything's open plan I was sitting talking to the people I was like how do I draw money if I actually want to speak to a real person yeah yeah and that that's going and I know from working with some of the big banks yes that the idea of having a branch is something that they are actually phasing out absolutely everything at some stage is going to be done online online now let's talk about me let's add state in the banking industry and maybe I was good enough to work my way up now I'm now in mind in my 50s this concept of this fourth Industrial Revolution is terrifying now you talk to corporates about this but but it's more than that you can't just assume that brick brothers gonna look after you mm-hmm what do you say what do you suggest to people because I'm sure I'm not the only one that's asked you this that yeah okay so you're telling me this change is coming what can I do speak to me about this I think one of the most critical things to do is to understand that you know when when change comes usually especially in the 21st century context of business it's usually adapt or die you know and and I know it sounds like very terrible news but but that's the reality of it especially in the world of business I was just talking at the other day about the fact that if you look at for example Kodak Kodak had a head start in 1976 7576 Stephen Sarson pretty much is the first guy he was a Kodak engineer and and he discovered the the make a pixel 0.01 you know make a pixel a black and white photograph and then then when he presented to his board members they said well look how long will this take for it to hit prime and he thought well 20 25 years but he didn't anticipate the power of exponentials you know and so once technology started moving and evolving very fast Kodak found itself in a in a place where its main product was now replaced by digital technology and some other companies had already taken over the market and then from there you know you know you know then comes comes of course the phones that had a make a pixel who actually needs a 24 36 exposure now that you've got that and so their main product started dematerialize dematerializing and now the challenge you have is that you have a hundred-year company you know with over 140,000 employees and 28 billion in market capitalization crumbling and filing for bankruptcy why because when it comes to change the marketplace is ruthless and that you've got this young companies you know you know pretty much look at your Google where it took Kodak a hundred years to corner a market Google does it in five hit of the hit becomes a billion dollar company Facebook does it in six becomes a billion dollar company so the reality is that when if the fringes of change if you don't adapt you die and so it's very important for people to you know start start to plan ahead especially when you own a business because now these guys who are starting up their businesses are able to make a unit of wealth with less people that's the point about it you know this industrial revolution empowers you sitting in your garage at home or you sitting at home develop an app and you are able to to impact millions of people literally through through digital technology that's the point and so we have to have plans in place as companies are we adapting or are we dying that's the question there's an interesting message just came in here from Nikki goes as Bill Gates says if a machine takes your job it should pay your taxes fair point points but I mean I look now in my business and we are very much in terms of video social media etc etc yes trying to be on the cutting edge right and I spend a good portion of every single day looking and trolling the internet and watching for trends and changes etc etc purely because it changes that fast and it's you know suddenly we're not operating in isolation now suddenly the whole world and this is I think the plus side the whole world can become your marketplace yes yes but one of the things I've noticed is that believe it or not the Philippines people in the Philippines have now caught on to this idea of internet etc etc etc and they are offering virtual PA services okay so you literally can sign up get your virtual PA not necessarily just in the Philippines in some other countries yes and you send them a list of tasks you send them what you need to do if you're doing research off you send it and it comes back to you at a fraction of the cost yeah of what it would cost you for a full-time PA now you think about it these people are working you're not the only customer there's many customers yes but now these guys have caught on to the fact that there's this big world out there and they're gonna need to make a living yes yeah where are we in South Africa get back to my initial question right what can people do what can old faggies like myself corporate South Africa small medium businesses what can we physically do now to make sure we do not become redundant I think there's these these these two parts to it the the first part is is a responsibility on the on the business front in whatever business you are in make sure that you are doing enough R&D to to to empower you digitally to empower you because remember once something moves from analog into into the digital sphere it becomes exponentially empowered and the difference between linear cloth and exponential growth I mean linear cloth for example if I walk you know take 30 steps I'll end up just by the door here but if I take 30 exponential steps that's compound doubling you know by my 20th step I'm already empowered in the millions by my 30th step I've moved a billion meters away or I've orbited the earth 26 times so so so it's a it's a it's a very very big shift so in terms of business make sure that your business is empowered for technology you know I was saying that when the combined harvester came it replaced thousands of people that were waking in the fields as painful as it was that was the cost of of of either adapting or dying I think so on the business front make sure that your business is adaptable in fact of I've actually spoken to quite a number of business owners who are now moving their systems from from analog to digital hmm and of course the the the the the disadvantage of that is that it pretty much drops their their employment made matrices because you know chances that a 50 or 60 year old guy can catch can be much catch where technology is going up pretty much slim so you're having younger people coming in that's that's the evolution of business today but but the reality is that in these fringes of change it's important then for those of us who are who are pretty much on their way out in terms of age wise to at least have had a backup plan have a backup plan you don't make sure you have saved make sure that you can invest the money into some of these coming technologies so that there is continuity but the reality of it is that you know you have to teach yourself a new skill in terms of in terms in terms of adapting into this world that we are going into and it's it's it's not even just the technology of it in terms of usability but a lot of a lot of this technology that's coming gives everybody an opportunity to be an entrepreneur learning your skill develop an app make sure your services are available online you know that's that's and also interact because now the middleman doesn't exist now you know in terms of you can go straight to to customers hmm we found that as well and in my business is essentially we do I suppose the core of it could be digital content creation whether it be the e-learning platforms whatever the case may be and I've noticed there are people in South Africa now that that are starting to kind of they're wanting to take the sleep we're getting more and more business where guys are saying to us listen can you help me create an app can you help me do this can you do some video content for me can you help me because I don't understand about the power of the social media thing and so on the one hand I get that on the other when we talk to people some of them go yeah social media rubbish we don't need that this is that's it we don't need it we don't need it and those are the kind of people that are that are this is where this adapt or dies coming in because if you don't and I was one of those naysayers I'm an hour convert but I was one of those ones a pair social media but I've seen I've seen this change coming and it's coming like a tidal wave yeah another message just in so I'll just I'll read it out and then we'll answer the question at the end goes hi I'm a master student about to stop my proposal phase and it's based around the fourth Industrial Revolution how do I get in touch with your guest that's Sherry Lee I'll tell you what Sherry Lee I'll give you tundos details at the end of the show we'll give them all out you can contact Tundu directly give up my email address if you don't get either one of the two you will have one I can also put you in touch with Tundo as well so now you consult you speak on this yeah but now you're also about to be an author oh yes yes let's talk a little bit about being an author because this is also very much part of this fourth Industrial Revolution about the digitizing of everything because in the old days you would have to write your book yes yes you could use a word processor but then you would have to find a publisher and you would literally have to travel around town hmm and go to all of these and if somebody eventually decided maybe your book was good enough or oh shame they felt sorry for you they'd give you a chance that doesn't happen anymore yeah so talk to me about writing your book all right um I think this was probably one of the most interesting things I I have done I mean I've done I've done articles and I've written quite quite a bit I mean I do have my first book I did in 2007 but then I went on this break because I realized that well when I published something again I just want to have this this unique value proposition that I put in it and so then I started writing my book it's called the winning mindset because remember everything else starts off with a mindset the mindset is the framework in which behavior happens you know the behavior cannot rise above the mindset you know and and and the whole concept is that your mindset determines how you act and so if if change if authentic change will happen you know it must first of all happen in the mindset because winning is first a mind thing before it becomes an action thing and so in that book I I speak about what does it take to have a winning mindset what what types of mindsets are there you know how do you evolve a winning belief system how do you how do you evolve winning action how do you actually change unhealthy or unproductive behaviors you know and so I trace all of that from the concept of understanding the power of a winning mindset when you look at guys like your and you'll send bolts of the day and and and and and all of these other competitive fellows you know they they love to win they believe they can win they have the winning mindset even before they go to compete I mean I talk about some of the interviews I did with the with the badminton team and the and South African swimming team before before they went to the to the to the Commonwealth Games in there in I was at 2015 I think and and and all of those researches showed me it's so funny that the the the metals that South Africa bought from the product from the from the Commonwealth most of the teams I had interviewed had already shown or displayed the winning mindset before they actually went to the to the games and and correlated with that so so that's what my book is all about I mean who was it was a Henry Ford that says with that said whether you believe you can or you believe you can't you right yes and it's amazing about that but now again with this book it's not going to be just published traditionally through a traditional polish oh yeah oh yeah and this is also what I'm getting at with technology because anybody can become an author these days yes yes yes yes now now the the tools again the industrial revolution has given us the tools there is nothing that you cannot outsource that you don't have so in the olden days you needed a printing press you needed somebody to believe in your idea and remember they are getting thousands of of these manuscripts and and requests to publish and chances that yours can get picked up somewhere between slim and none in most cases and so and so but what technology has done is that it is it is it has given us the ability now I pretty much right wherever I am sometimes I make notes on my phone and I email them to myself then when I when I get home I simply import them onto my laptop and then and then after writing even in terms of publishing itself you do self-publishing you know when you do self-publishing you own all the rights to your material you you pretty much determine where the book goes yes you do apply for an ISBN number and get everything else sorted out legally so that you know the IP is is legally yours but now you you're able and then and then make it available online make it available Barnes and Noble you know Kindle and and and all of these lovely platforms we're now just on my iPad I can have six seven thousand books now that's the power of technology and everyone is empowered and it's and it's a wonderful wonderful technology oh you know everybody says that that everybody's got at least one book in them I haven't found my book yet there's been a lot of attempts at it but I haven't I can help you I coach I coach people now to write now we can talk but it is it's that technology I can sit at my home on the weekends whenever I need to and I can I can write and you talk about outsourcing yes you know how much of the stuff is you talk about writing a book you can outsource your book as it is you've now written it yes you can outsource it you can send it to somebody and say listen here it is how much will you judge me to edit this book oh and people can do it I mean yeah things like Fiverr yes massive massive business internationally I don't know how many people in South Africa are making use of that but Fiverr Upwork is another brilliant brilliant website for those kind of things you can find somebody to do almost anything yeah the thing that troubles me and which is why I'm glad we've had a chat about this is yes fine but you know I'd much rather send my my digital work anything like that my video editing etc etc I'd much rather send it to somebody in South Africa rather than Indonesia the Philippines you know India's massive at the moment yes it's huge you know and you can see how the Indians have sort of bought into this concept and they now outsourcing left right and center yeah you know be prepared to do the work somebody else isn't prepared to do and be prepared to do it for it for a lesser amount yeah we had a case somebody wanted us to do a whole course for them and to film it and it was going to be you know they were that they wanted us to put on it was basically it was based on NLP and motivation and okay in terms of fitness and weight loss yes we did the quote for them they turn around we oh no it's too expensive we're gonna use Fiverr and here's my butt do your homework first because the lady paid a lot of money and then eventually ended up coming back to us going whoops sorry yeah so it is and it's like anything due diligence is what is necessary absolutely look at look at check work you know look at records there's people that will write articles for you yeah you know but are they going to be using a piece of software that's just going to take stuff off the net and spin an article for you or are they doing the real deal so there's a lot of challenges there your book you're saying you're launching when the winning mindset it will be it will be available next month around my birthday on the 27th of August that's where that's when we are launching it out and so yeah it will come out in pretty much evasions and and as well as as well as hard copies can we can we get it from your website yes yes absolutely my website tundospeaks.com okay Sherry Lee are you paying attention yeah okay this is how you get hold of my guest today dr. Tondo Cebanda Tondo Speaks T-H-A-N-D-O Speaks all one word .com that's it we're out of time Wow it's very short very short we're gonna have to we're gonna have to bring you back at some stage but if you'd like to get hold of Tondo maybe you'd like to talk to me about your business I know and I'm gonna put words in your mouth so I know a lot of times the guys that are getting here are speakers and and they are professionals they consult only at the highest level you are however too happy to help the likes of me the small business the guys that are starting out somebody that just has a question I know you to be somebody that will answer those questions absolutely so there we go I if you need to get hold of me it's David at what's involved .com what's involved spelled W-A-T-T-S-I-N-V-O-L-V-E-D I have to make that distinction because for all of my digital knowledge when I decided on my business name which is a play on my surname and I thought it was very clever yeah I never realized that people are gonna go what's W-H-A-T-S so I have to be one of those digital mistakes you don't want to make absolutely anyway Tondo thank you so much for coming in and having a chat to us it's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege having a chat to you tonight at tundospeaks.com Tondo will be more than happy to help you book coming out I think maybe we'll get you back when you do the book launch sure thank you it's the only thing that makes sense thank you so much from my side one more thing thank you for listening I do appreciate it any feedback as well please mail me David at what's involved .com