Heidi Brauer — Hollard And The Daredevil Run

Once again, what's involved it is, it is so good to have you along with us. Today, tonight, this evening, we're talking about something that's fairly close to my heart, and I'm talking metaphorically, not in a physical sense. What am I gonna be talking about? Well, we're going to be talking in a roundabout way. We're gonna be talking about prostate cancer. But before we get there, let me introduce you to my guest, and she is, let me see, did I get this right? You're the marketing director at Holard. It's Haiti Brower. Hello, Haiti. - Hello, David. Yes, you got it right. More affectionately known as the brand mama, which I much prefer. - Oh, the brand mama. I like that. I like that. Okay, so generally what we're gonna get onto, and we're gonna be talking about the prostate cancer and the annual Holard Daredevil run, but we're gonna get into that in just a little bit because I love to find out about the people that I speak with and people who are doing great things in our country, and you qualify on all fronts, Haiti. So tell me a little bit about Haiti. Are you sort of Joburg born and bred? Where did you come from and why marketing?

- Thanks. I'm pleased to have made this lovely honest list on a Friday morning. I am Joburg born and bred. Yes, Joburg born, bred, stayed, actually never lived anywhere else. I went to school here, I went to varsity here and have had my family here too. I didn't take a direct path to marketing at all. I mean, I know I put my camera on for David for a millisecond so he could see who he was talking to, but I'm not as young as I look and sound. So when I was at varsity, when I was studying and thinking what to study, I don't think marketing was really like a thing, maybe you did an IMM after you did, after, after, after what you did. But I actually have a BSc degree in nursing. So I have delivered babies and done all sorts of interesting things. And I went on a path from my nursing degree into pharmaceutical market research, into brand research, and then into looking after brands. So my journey was a twisty one that landed me where I am now. - Okay, it's an interesting journey by the sounds of things, but just in terms of Holard, I mean, you know, we see the Holard Daredevil run, the color purple is a big thing. But how long have you been with Holard? And, you know, what is it that fascinates you about the brand and the insurance world?

- So I've been with Holard. Next month, I will have been with Holard for eight years. I always sound like I'm trying to work it out. Well, it's eight years of marriage and I dated for a year first 'cause I consulted to Holard before joining them full-time. And, which is actually a nice way to do things, you know, the dating before you marry. - You get to know them, absolutely. - Yeah, exactly. And I came from Kalula and British Airways and the slow lounges, which is a completely different environment to insurance. And what attracted me really, I think, you know, I got invited to do some consulting work in one of the businesses and slowly, slowly got to know Holard as an organization, as a brand, as a whole culture of its own and really did fall in love. I make it sound like a love story. It was a little bit of that. Because I said to the chairman right in the beginning, I didn't have a deep yearning to be in insurance or financial services, but I did have a real desire to work with this organization because of what makes them so special. You know, it's family. It was a family started by a family. It's still owned by that family. The family are still involved. And it's a pretty special family who cares about the markets that they work in, cares about the people that work with and for them.

Pioneering, inventive, challenging, full of heart. And you know, that's a context that is important for me. So it was a match for me in terms of that. And I had to just get myself an actuarial handbook and all as well. - She says, just get an actuarial handbook. But I think the most important thing because Holard is an incredibly well-known brand. And in this market of ours, you know, insurance generally, it's a grudge purchase and then everybody's got the horror stories and bad things to say, Holard seems to be a little bit above that. And the prime example is this Holard day devil run. When did that start and how did that come about? - You know, it's so interesting that idea of grudge purchase and then I'm gonna move into respond more directly to your day devil question. Grudge purchase money. I think anytime anybody has to put part with money, it's a grudge. When I was in the airline industry, that was a grudge purchase too. And you think buying an airline tickets to fly somewhere for something typically lovely. I mean, obviously people fly for not good reasons too. But that was a grudge purchase. But financial services really is especially insurance because you can't see it and smell it and taste it and you only usually need it when something's gone wrong.

So it really is a grudge. But we've positioned our lens on the world to be sort your financial matters out, get yourself covered and then live a good life. And that's really what day devil is about. It's about get yourself tested. Know that you're in good health or that you're not so that you can do something about it and live a good life. And if I put another layer of what we do on that, we believe and take what you do seriously but not yourself. And that's how we can do day devil. Now day devil was born actually in a sister company that's now we brought back into Hallard called Etana. And it started off as a dare literally. Some guys in a bar and in the telling of the story, I confess I wasn't there. So when you tell a story, you tell it as it's been told to you and it's broken telephone a bit. But legend has it, a bunch of guys were having a bunch of drinks and they dared one of the Oaks to run through peak hour traffic in nothing but a speedo and they would donate money to a charity. And from that day devil was born and it started small in Etana. The guys used to run in great speedos and slowly, slowly it grew and it grew. And at some point that must be seven, eight years ago.

We bought Etana back into Hallard. Everybody said, you certainly can't change a red speedo thing to a purple, but we did. And so 11 years later, we're still running. We're still raising awareness for male cancers by taking what we do seriously, not ourselves 'cause it is a bit of a crazy afternoon. And we're helping men become aware of and talk about something that they typically wouldn't. - Which I think is wonderful because that is one of the points I was going to raise. It's become acceptable. It's become the norm for women to talk about cancer, to talk about breast cancer, but you hardly ever hear stories of men talking about cancer and particularly something like prostate cancer. You know, that takes, excuse the pun, but that takes balls. So, you know, we've got to take our hats off to the fact that you guys are doing this, but how much planning goes into the day devil run? Because it happens across the country if I'm not incorrect. - So we have over a few years run it across the country, which is quite unique, but we found that actually we try to raise money from it, right? So the less it costs us, the more we can direct to the cancer charities and we support Cancer Association and the Prostate Cancer Foundation.

And so the more the runs cost us, the less we can direct to them. So in fact, in the last couple of years, we've changed it and we're running only in Joburg so that we can channel more of the money to the good causes much to the consternation of the guys in all of the other cities, but we do have some ideas. COVID has made us think a little bit inventively again. We have some ideas, but it's a labor of love, real love, with incredible participants and partners like Cancer and PCF and others who just wanna be part of it. And as you say, we do it because it is a spectacle to see 4,000, 5,000 men and boys of all shapes and sizes and ages and abilities. Because we've got guys doing it who are differently abled, who are in wheelchairs and so on. Dads pushing kids in prams, all sorts. Running through peak hour traffic in a purple speedo. And it literally stops the traffic and people take pictures and they share. And they say, "What is this?" And then they can say, "Oh, that's what it's about." Because as you say, the women's cancers have been talked about. They have been breast cancer teas and tea parties since forever and women are getting better at even talking about going for pap smears.

But what mom knows to teach her son to check his nuts, they don't, I know. - Yeah, absolutely. - You know, so this is important. You know, can I just, as a sort of short anecdote here, this is something that had never ever occurred to me. I knew it existed, but it never occurred to me until one day a very good friend of mine came back and he was absolutely pale, ashen-faced. And he said to me, "I have testicular cancer." And you know, when something like that strikes close to home, it suddenly makes everything more real. And I went, "Oh dear, how did you notice?" And then he went into the whole story and everything. But suddenly, you become aware of one person and suddenly because your attention is there, you become aware of more and more people that have gone through this battle or going through this battle, but they just don't talk about it. And I think the idea of running cancer out of town is absolutely brilliant. I know I've been challenged to do it before, but I am way too much of a wisp because traditionally you do it when it's a little chilly.

Anyway, and despite that, the fact of a five kilometer, which is also to me a contradiction in terms, a five kilometer fun run. Five kilometers fun and run, no, no, no. - I have to allay some fears. First of all, we try to do it when it's not so cold because it's much nicer to run when it's not cold. So usually we do it around March. This year we're gonna try and do it in September. I'm all things going well with Corona. First of all, second of all, let me tell you that for sure you will not be the hottest and for sure you will not be the notest because I swear every single shape and size, okay? Every shape and size. And the third thing I must tell you is that this five Ks has a halfway stop. We run you up to Hallard and there's a bare stop whilst we gather everybody. So we can close the highway so you can run back across and back down to the finish. It's not a race. And whoever heard of stopping off to two and a half Ks for a beer. So it's so cool, really. - Wonderful stuff. We are talking to my special guest from Hallard, Hadie Brahe. We'll be back in just a bit. This is what's involved. And we're back with my special guest, Hadie. I'll get it right, Hadie Brahe. Is that the traditional sort of German version, Hadie?

- So look, my parents aren't with me anymore. So I can't really ask them why I ended up with Hadie, but I'm a Jewish girl. I was a Greenberg. So whilst my surname sounds German and one would want to say Hadie, I'm a Hadie. I've always been a Hadie. I don't know why, I just am. But if it will help you, you have to think Hadie like lady, not Hadie like untidy. (laughing) I've got it. I'll keep Hadie in my brain now. And I'll no doubt at some stage get into trouble by calling somebody a Hadie that should be a Hadie. But more importantly, we're talking about running camps out of town. You say that you're thinking about doing the run now in September, which is nice. Spring run, put a bit of a spring in your step. The whole idea though, to my mind, of this Daredevil run, Hadie, is that it's a fun way of bringing to the fore something that is very, very serious. So how long does each one take you to plan? I mean, do you finish one and start planning the next already? - We give ourselves a little bit of a break, but we pretty much have to start figuring out the next one quite soon after. This one has kept us busy. Our last Daredevil run was literally the week before lockdown and up until the night before we were debating whether or not to have it.

I think had it not been something that was for fundraising and for good and for health, we would probably not have done it. But really everything was on our side and everyone was well and thankfully all was good. But we've had to change our tech. This one has literally taken, is gonna have taken more than a year to plan 'cause we keep having to change every time something with COVID changes. Because to all intents and purposes, we're outside, we could have a few hundred people, but we just won't and we can't.

We typically have cancer sufferers running or survivors and immunocompromised people and we just can't compromise anybody. So this year has been tough because we keep changing. Can we do it this way? Can we do it that way? Can we make it virtual? Can we make it real? But part of the thing about Daredevil Run is the camaraderie and you'll see that, David, when you run with us in September and we all look in each other's eyes, by the way. Okay, we don't look down. You'll see what happens. The oaks arrive and they slowly, they just row and it's a little orchies and suddenly they see their chiners 'cause people usually come and they run it's a Friday afternoon. So it's a good excuse to bring work colleagues and workmates, it's real chiers-building stuff. Once you've done that together, really. And then people just get into it and the vibe is unbelievable. And what the most incredible thing is that happens at the end is we have to, first of all, keep reminding people it's a run, not a race, but somebody always wants to win it. You know, the testosterone is big. But when you get to the end, there's normally beers and something to eat and you'd think that the oaks would be very, very quick to want to put their clothes on, but they are not.

They stand around and have their beer or their Coke or whatever it is in their speedos. Why? Because it's about camaraderie. It's about that togetherness. And that's really the spirit of Daredevil. And that's why doing it virtually is too difficult. It won't achieve what we need it to achieve because we want men to reflect back on that thing, to talk and encourage people 'cause now they're talking about their nuts. Now they're talking about their parts, their members that need to be checked. And then we're achieving what we need to achieve. So yeah, it takes some love and it takes some planning, but we do it with joy and with great pleasure because it's really, really special. And over the years that we've done it, we've done over 20,000 prostate-specific antigen blood tests 'cause we do that for the over 40s. And we've detected hundreds of abnormalities through that, potentially saving hundreds of lives and changing families and so on. So it's meaningful for us. - Yeah, absolutely. So now what I wanted to know is for people who maybe have been living under a rock, for example, over the last couple of years, they don't know about the Daredevil run or they're listening to us talking going, "Hey, maybe we can look at doing that." What is the process?

I mean, how do you actually raise the funds? Is there an entry fee or how does it work? - Yeah, so there is an entry fee. The entry fee goes to buying your speedo, which you can choose to run in last year's speedo. I think the last year was our 11th year before. I can't keep track. It feels like corona has taken away all time. Sometimes we have like a special feature speedo, like when it was our 10th anniversary or whatever. But if you knew you need a new speedo, we pay for all of the costs ourselves, other than that. And then actually the best part of the entry fee goes to our cancer charities. So we take all the costs ourselves and your entry fee with or without your speedo, depending on if you need one, goes to the cancer charities. So some guys who don't have the, sorry, we're gonna do this, the balls to run, will sometimes just pay for the entry. And then at least that money goes to the cancer charities. 'Cause what that enables them to do is Cancer Association, for example, has a thing called the Man Van. It's a beautifully holo purple painted little mobile unit that goes to areas where there's this access to healthcare and they do testing and education in those areas. So Manico is very, very well used and well spent by cancer and PCF.

- Okay, so if you're an absolute wiz like me and it's got nothing to do with walking around in a speedo, you can still enter, you can still contribute, which I think is brilliant. And the reason I was smiling to myself while you're talking about this is, I can just see men on the entry form and it comes to size of speedo. Everybody's looking at puffing their chest up and going, "Well, it's extra large, of course." That could be quite interesting. - We, like I said, we work hard, but we get a lot of fun and pleasure out of it. One of the best two days of the years when the guys come to collect their race packs from hollard and we ask them what size speedo they would like. And they're never sure whether to go size up, size down, 'cause they want to be slim and trim, but they also want to be. And then you have to go, "My dear, it's the size of your hips, not the size of your, like, anyway." - Oh my goodness. Yeah, 'cause the last thing you'd want to do is stand out. Anyway, listen, bad puns aside. Let's move on. So, do you encourage then with this and on the day, any form of prostate testing? Because I know in the old days, it was, to me, the first time one was ever done on me, I was kind of somewhat taken aback, and that was by hearing the snap of a rubber glove.

But these days, blood test is the easier way. Am I correct? Now, do you encourage people to do this before the race? - So, what happens actually is that we, on the day that you come and collect your race kit, Cancer Association is there with their nursing sisters and they will do, if you're over 40, they will do a blood test for you then and there. And on the day of the race, they also have a mobile unit there who will do blood testing. So, we absolutely do encourage it. So, that's for the over 40s. And then for the younger men, we have these, what do I call them? A model of testicles. - The human analog, how's that? - Yeah, with hidden lumps in them. And so, we pass those around and let the guys feel what it would feel like if you felt a lump in your nuts so that you actually can start to learn how to check yourself in the shower regularly because early detection saves lives. And we want to de-stigmatize this. - You know what, that's actually, it's funny. Okay, on the face of it, it's funny, but that actually makes so much sense because how do you know unless you've been shown an example? So, hats off to you guys. I mean, that's absolutely fantastic. I want to wrap up with this conversation when we come back.

My special guest from Holod, Heidi Brouwer. And we're talking all about the daredevil run, going purple and running cancer out of town, back in just a bit. And we're back with Heidi from Holod, my special guest. So, we're planning now that this is going to happen in September, but this is all dependent, isn't it? - Yeah, absolutely. You know, we'll never put anybody's lives at risk. And so, we've got all sorts of schemes and plans on how to do some version of daredevil safely because, you know, it's not just a fun run or a race to get a medal. This is about health awareness and raising funds to encourage more health awareness. So, we've got a big responsibility. Nobody else is doing this stuff to the degree that we do it with cancer and PCF. So, we'll find a way. We've got ways, we've got plans. - All righty, now, obviously we need to watch the media and be able to sort of see when this is happening, when we know more about... 'Cause yeah, this whole living in limbo thing is getting a bit thin, I think, for everybody now. But we know that we have to do it. And particularly, as you said, for those people who are immunocompromised, when will we know more, roughly? I'm asking you to stick your neck out a bit, Ciao, no?

- Yeah, I think that we've agreed that we need to wait till after this Easter period and this anticipated, hopefully mild surge, that's likely. And then, watch to see when the vaccinations start to move along, and then we'll be in a better position to announce dates and so on. It was important for us now in this March, April period to tell people that we weren't doing it now, but to also remind people to check themselves. And I think you're hearing quite a lot now in the media of medical people saying one of the biggest risks with COVID is that people have avoided their regular checkups for their blood pressure, for their HIV, for any of their chronic conditions and preventative care, breast care, and those kinds of things. So it was important for us not only just to tell our previous runners and would-be runners that we're moving it out, but also to remind men and boys to check themselves, to not forget to look after the health of their bits. And that's why this is important for us now, just that that stuff is still in the top of people's minds, that they don't forget to look after themselves. - Wonderful stuff. Well, absolutely, and you've said it, early detection is the best thing.

So diarise it, okay? September, that's when we're hoping to have the next Daredevil run. But until then, check your testicles, guys, okay? Ladies, urge brothers, boyfriends, sons, husbands, partners, man up, okay? And go out and get a test. Where do we go if we want to find out some more information? Heidi? - So I think if you need more info on the cancers, I would encourage you to have a look at the Cancer Association website, Post-it Cancer Foundation website. Our social channels will be publishing stuff, but for the medical stuff, have a look there. And really, just remember that the survival rate in men whose prostate cancer is picked up early is 95%. This is very, very treatable. That's why it's so important to just check and be aware, because it really can change your life. - Absolutely. Heidi, before I let you go, I normally ask my guests either for some advice or I ask them what is next. And I think I'm gonna go for the what is next. What else has Holod got up their sleeves? Have you got anything exciting and interesting that you can give us some clues about? 'Cause I'm always fascinated to see how you guys manage to stay as top of mind as you do. - Ah, thank you. That comes from lots of love and laboring that love.

And David, so we have just launched something extremely special called Big Ads for Small Business. It launched about a month ago, six weeks ago, where we've given all of our ad space and in all of our media platforms to a dozen small businesses, from Coney Wines to Thesis Lifestyle,

Thress Education, the 12 businesses, Ground Wine Coffee, and you'll see our billboards, TV ads, radio, it's topped and tailed with a bit of Holod, but we've given it all away, because in this economy, really the small businesses need the support no more than ever. And we'll soon be doing a little boost first to encourage other businesses actually to copy us, which is an thing unheard of really, who asks somebody to copy their ad campaign. But we really wanna encourage other businesses to do the same thing, give away a little of your space and help other small businesses who really need it more than ever for their businesses to be promoted. So that's Big Ads for Small Business, which is running now at the moment for the next six months. And if you drive past the side of Joburg on the double deck highway, you'll see we've just put up a huge, enormous, beautiful piece of art on an enormous building just down by the diamond center. That's a gorgeous piece of art by Ye Abe. So we just want to paint Josie's city purple and give people a smile. And the next thing is being cooked as we speak, can't tell you yet. - Wonderful stuff. Well, what's the space? What's the social media and whatever you do.

Guys, go get tested, get checked out, and hopefully we'll see you at the Daredevil Run. And we say to you, hey, De Bruyne, thank you so very, very much to you and the team. You guys have done some wonderful stuff. I know the amount of passion that goes into something like this. So thank you, and thank you for keeping on, 'cause it would have been so easy during these times just to say, whoops, gone do it. Sorry, but as I said, great company. And it clearly sounds like a great company to work with as well. So there we go. That was my special guest, Hey De Bruyne. For me, all I gotta say is thank you so much for listening. Take care, look after yourselves.