Marc-Gregory — Visual Artist, ,Photographer, Storyteller

And once more, it is what's involved. So good to have you along with us. I've got a special guest today. And I'm very, very excited about this because, well, sadly, I wasn't able to attend the official big launch. But it's all about this fantastic-- I can't just call it a book because it's not. Who am I talking about and why am I waffling on? Well, Mark Gregory, welcome. Thank you, David. So help me out of my conundrum because whilst it's beautiful and stunning, it's not just a book of photographs. This is what I'm trying to get across. So we're going to dive into what that is. But before we do that, tell me a little bit about Mark Gregory. Give me some of your background. David, I used to run a marketing business for-- geez, it was 18 years. And I left that business to pursue my passion as a photographer, as a visual artist. That all took place, I would say, just over two years ago. I'm a South African, job born, and a trip in your heart, and an artist at heart, and a creative at heart. Wow, OK, because sometimes those are mutually exclusive. People always talk when you say you're an artist at heart, then say, poor you, you must be struggling and battling. But you create such beautiful things.

How did this project come along that we're talking about today? It all started two years ago. And when I decided to pursue my passion so single-mindedly, I had a vision to photograph South Africa's greatest people, and for it to make a difference and make an impact in this country. And yeah, it all started there. My intention was to do this as a project of the heart. I didn't want anything commercial standing in the way. I didn't want to produce a book where I would be the recipient of anything else. But the fact that this book would be an expression of my God-given gift, and it would serve a greater purpose. And that's why I partnered with the Reach for a Dream Foundation, where all the proceeds of the book will be going. That is fantastic. Putting the book-- it's a two-year process. Were you just fortunate enough because of your background to know the people that you featured in this, or did you have to go knock on some doors? Jeez, David, this is probably one of the most challenging aspects of doing all this, is getting these 32 South African grades. And when you start a project like this, everyone looks at it and goes, well, who else is in it? Because they'll make their decision on whether they want to participate based on that.

So getting that first few grades to say yes was quite a challenge. Yes, I did use the network that I'd built in my previous agency to call on a few people. I remember Kuli Chana in particular. We'd worked together. He performed for a number of our events. And I've known him for years. So he was obviously one of the first people that I reached out to. He was bringing out a new album at the time as well. So he was still very relevant. And Pepe-Marie as well, who's been a friend and a mentor to me for a long time. I want to get into chat a bit about some of these guys a little bit later. Pepe, for example, is an absolutely amazing human being. I've known him also for years and years. But who decides on who those 32 people should be? Did you just go, these are people from various facets? Because it's not just people that are in media or advertising. You've crossed all the shorter spectrums. How did you come to that decision? I wanted to celebrate the culture of our country. And to celebrate the culture of our country, you have to look at all the spheres of it, including business, sport, music, fashion, cooking. The list does go on. And I think that we really honored that in terms of capturing all the spheres, we only stayed away from two.

And it was a conscious choice. The one was politics, the other was religion. We didn't want anything getting in the way. We wanted people to look at this and just be inspired. And so we feel like we have it at all. I think it's fantastic what you've done. But now talk to me about the visual storytelling aspect of it, because you haven't just taken photos of these people. I mean, you've included various bits and pieces, which I think is absolutely fantastic. Yeah. As you say, it's more than just an art book. It's a storytelling journey as well. And we have already an exceptional writer that joined me in this. And the name is Jenny Griesel. And she really brought the images to life. She was able to convey the story of that person so well. And what we really wanted to do here was to recapturing greatness and we celebrating greatness. But what does that mean to the reader? I think it means that we're understanding who this person is at a deeper level. We're understanding their story. How did they achieve greatness? What were their setbacks? And how did they see themselves? And all of that has to be translated not only in the image, but in the words as well. Yeah, I must tell you, Jenny, I've known Jenny for years as well.

And she was very humble about this whole thing. She said to me, listen, there's this book that's coming out. And it's a great guy. And he's a visual alchemist, et cetera, at no stage until I actually had a look who wrote the book that I figured out that Jenny was involved as well. Now, to me, she is also an amazing, amazing human being. So the fact that the two of you got to work together are absolutely brilliant. How is the book? Because to date, I have not managed to get my hot, sticky little hands onto the actual book. I've got all the other bits and pieces around it. But how does the book read from the beginning? From the beginning, we get an understanding of how everything comes together and how the book was inspired. And the book is inspired by the words of Douglas Everett who said, there are some people who live in a dream world. There are some people that face reality. And then there are those that turn one into the other. And In Good Companies, the story of 32 South African greats who have created their own realities. And they've made their dreams a reality. And that's the underpinning idea behind the book. And we have a beautiful forward that's been written by Tulli Marunsela.

She's one of the people that participated in the book. And I'll tell you, David, she was definitely one of the highlights. And I think everybody was a highlight for me because they were personally chosen. Tulli was especially so because we know her as this tough former public protector. But Tulli is actually a very creative soul at heart. I mean, she's designed her own clothing. She's recently published a children's book. And so she embraced the creative process of this project. And she understood what we set out to achieve, especially with the proceeds going to reach for a dream. And you get all of this. I spend a lot of time with these great in-studio hours and hours, and we talk about it. And I felt she got it so much that I asked her to write the forward of the book. Thereafter, we're getting to experience and enjoy these 32 South African greats. There are full-size art pieces with all of them. There are stories that accompany it. And we have this augmented reality experience. It's one of the first of its kind where you can actually use your smartphone and hover your phone over the image, and it comes to life. So this adds a whole new dimension. That's what separates this book from any other creative artwork being produced.

I think that's amazing. And I mean, just some of the photos that I've seen, they're almost like living creations. When we come back, I'd like to discuss a little bit more about what the creative process was and how you managed to get these spectacular photographs. Because anybody can point and snap, but an artist is something entirely different. This is "What's Involved." We'll be back with my special guest, Mark Gregory, in just a bit. We are talking about his fantastic book that they've just released called "In Good Company," back in just a bit. And we're back with my special guest, Mark Gregory. So tell me a little bit about this process. I mean, number one, these are all very busy people. So you must have had to do a very good sales job to get them to a place where you could actually start creating some of these photos. I'll tell you what. The pandemic actually was a blessing in that respect because it closed everything down. All these busy celebrities who are so in demand and going to events and public appearances, that wasn't happening anymore. So it made it a lot easier to get access to their diaries. I suppose, yeah, that's one silver lining. Can we then get into, how long did it take you to sort of get these specific photos taken?

Because as I said, they're almost like living things that you've got in the book. Yeah, so we've got 100 art pieces. Those 100 art pieces took two years to create. And yeah, each art piece took a significant amount of time. I mean, the process roughly end to end with each personality took about three weeks to a month. And the reason it took so long is because it was not only finding the person, but it was understanding their history, understanding their story. Personally research this about them. I'd find anything and everything I could to really understand them. And then after that, we would send them a group of iconic questions. And these iconic questions, there were three of them. And one of the questions was, what is the single most exciting and uncomfortable work you will spend your time on over the next year? And that question unearthed their dreams and their purpose and what they were setting out to do. The second question was, how would you describe yourself as a symbol or animal or plant? And this question was by far the most impactful because it would reveal them in a way that we could all understand and relate to in their stories. So Nadia Nakai, who features in it her symbol is fire.

Tulimaran Selah is the elephant. Jeremy Loops is water and being in flow with life. So each of these symbols really captures their essence and is something that I could use in the creation of the art. And that final question is, how would you describe the above vision of yourself in one word? Pepe Maria, for example, his word is greatness. And for those South Africans that know Pepe, they know that this word is something-- it's his guiding word for life. I mean, if you walk into his agency, Joe Public, you'll see this word greatness plastered huge on his wall. He even wrote a book, a best-selling book called Growing Greatness. And in one of the images, you'll see his arm. He's looking at his arm. His arms opened up. And inside are these seeds of greatness that are coming out these dandelions floating in space. And we wanted to really just capture that idea of him and greatness. Now, Pepe is somebody that I can now reference because I know him. And just in terms of what you've said, that's absolutely spot on. His story is a very interesting one as well because he wasn't always this kind of zen visionary person that you see today. I mean, I know Pepe from the older days of the agency business.

And it's just amazing the kind of transformation that he's made. Somebody else that I chatted to before is John Sonnet. Now, he is-- I mean, he's an amazing man. And he's got a brain that is about 20 steps ahead of man on a bad day. How did you go about interacting with him? John is a close friend of mine. We've known each other for many years. And John, I have to give John a lot of credit in my personal journey because I met with him when I was going through-- were really questioning what I wanted to do with my life. And he encouraged me to pursue my passion. And that one question that I asked, that one iconic question I mentioned, which is, what is the single most exciting and uncomfortable work you will spend your time on over the next year? You'll notice that I said the word exciting in there. And it's so important that when we follow our dreams and our passions, we do it. We do something that excites us because when we're feeling passionate about something, we're usually feeling excited about it. And John, he was the first person that I photographed for the book. And I always see John as a very expansive person. His first book was called What's Your Moon Shot? And it became an instant bestseller.

And John says over and over again, he says, always, always, always follow your highest excitement. And when you look in the book and you see his image, he's raising his arms. He's got six arms that are all connected in this motion that is so expansive and looking up at the moon. And this is a reflection of having an expansive mindset, but most importantly, following your highest excitement in life. Which is so important. And I have to confess to a slight twinge of envy here because the photos and the stories are so beautiful. And I consider myself a storyteller and a storysharer. And that's what I do. That's why I get out of bed in the morning. So I can do things like this and chat to people like you. But when you can combine the written word and visual art into it, it just becomes transcendent. I mean, wow, OK, enough gushing for the moment. Who else amongst all of these people that you chatted to, who had the biggest impact on you personally? I would say the one story that has stood out for me again and again and again is Maps Maponiani. And I think, David, you'll appreciate this because I think Maps has a similar journey to you. You know, when you were young, I know that you had an operation on your soft palate that didn't go as planned.

And you were told that you would never speak properly for the rest of your life and look at where you are now. And Maps Maponiani had a similar story growing up. He had a stutter. And so for anybody that knows about having a stutter or seeing it and experiencing it, it is one of the hardest things for a child because they're not only ridiculed by other children, but adults always come in and try and finish their words. And Maps talks about this experience growing up and being a very tough one for him and not knowing how to resolve it. And luckily, he had an amazing guide. He had a teacher who said to him that the way to solve his stutter would be to read aloud to himself. And it was important that he did it by himself because then there's no one else around. And he developed this love for reading and was able to surmount this setback that he had. And guess what happens? He becomes one of the most successful actors, one of the most successful MC speakers, producers, entrepreneurs in the country. What I find amazing about this story is that having the setback as a child, you would think, okay, let's work our way through it and we'll choose a career that doesn't really touch on that. But he chose a career that relied on talking specifically.

And for me, I've just got a lot of respect for that because that is showing true strength. And so I have that same respect for you, David, that you've done that and that you've built what you've built. So congratulations. You should be one of the greats in this book as well. - Not at all, not at all. I sort of, yeah, now you see, now you've got me all flustered by saying that. So thank you, first and foremost, 'cause I'm very bad at taking compliments. So thank you. I just, yeah, I always say to people that, with my whole thing that I overcame is just nobody told me I couldn't. So I didn't know I couldn't. And that's that. And I mean, I was in love with radio from right at the very, very early age. I used to get into trouble when I was supposed to be asleep 'cause I was under the covers listening to radio. So that's always been a big thing for me. Still, I wanna tell a bit about some of the other people that you cover in the book. Let's do that when we come back. This is what's involved. My special guest is Mark Gregory. And we're talking about his fantastic book. And wow, okay. It's called "In Good Company." It's something that you have got to get hold of. And the good thing is, proceeds are going to the Reach For A Dream Foundation.

We'll be back in just a bit. And we're back with my special guest, Mark Gregory. We're chatting about this incredible book, which, to yourself, get hold of. I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting. It's called "In Good Company," okay? There's 32 South Africans that are in there. And these are some of the best of the best. Who else can we chat about and touch on that had an impact for you personally? - Pearl Tussi was one of those people. She, wow, she came into studio and she's probably one of the most prepared people. You can see why she's one of the most successful South Africans. As you know, she does a lot of work overseas. She has her own show on Netflix, "Queen Sonos." She's really made it. And I was very excited when she decided to come on board the project. And what I enjoyed working with her, the reason I enjoyed it was in her outlook. And her name, Pearl, is also very much linked to Pearls of Wisdom. And she's got a lot of them. When I did a lot of research on her, she just seemed to have a lot of these insights. She's actually a very wise person. And so we captured that. She came in this just very elaborate, beautiful dress, and it was all made of pearls. And then we added, we digitally added even more pearls in it and put it into a shell.

And it came out amazing. One of the other images of her was with, she's holding hundreds of balloons. And the whole idea behind that piece was about dreams and balloons. And they've got a lot in common. And Pearl believes that if you hold onto the same balloon, you won't be able to rise higher unless you let go and grab a bigger one. And plus, if you're constantly rising, you'll never need to worry about who is behind you. So I really love that message of how we rise higher and we have to be brave. We actually have to step out of our comfort zones. We have to let go of that other balloon in order to grab a bigger one. - That's an amazing analogy. Now, another image that I was absolutely fascinated by is Khaartjahan Kutsjian. Talk to me about that, 'cause that is, I mean, just looking at that image, it's mind-blowing to me. - David, is that the one where he is watering the tree? - Yes, yes, watering the tree. And there's the roots of the tree. And it's just the way that you've captured that. And it's amazing. - Khaart has a similar outlook to life as John in that he doesn't chase success for the sake of it. He simply chooses to do what excites him every day. And in this way, he's been able to grow his fashion design business from a seed and now works with iconic greats like the Kardashians, Cardi B, and Oprah.

And I loved what he said in one of his answers. He spoke about the seed and he said, "Well, seeds grow in the dark and they can stay dormant for a long time, but at some point they are going to grow. They will grow in the darkness." And for me, that reflected his outlook to say, there's always these seeds of potential that we have. And sometimes they stay dormant for a while. And we have to be patient knowing that those seeds will sprout at some time. And seeds always sprout from the dark. So I love to capture that idea. - Wow, there's just so much wisdom. And I mean, to you, it must have been the most amazing thing because you get to capture these stories in a graphic way, but also share the stories. One that I want you to explain to me though, please, because for some reason it just, I find it incredible. It's a striking thing. Siv and Gessi, the one where he's sort of got his hands holding his face and there's all the little hearts, the little love hearts, the emojis coming out of his mouth. What is that about? - So Siv, he's not only a comedian, he's an outspoken advocate against gender-based violence. And when I saw his TED video, it's quite old, I was really moved by it. I thought it was amazing.

And I would encourage all listeners to go and watch that video. And once I'd seen it, I immediately invited him to be featured in the art collection. And my experience of Siv is that he was the most outspoken, confident and courageous person I photographed. And that art piece was inspired by how a friend best described him. And they said his ego is as big as his heart. And Siv being Siv did not take any offense to that. In fact, he loved that comment because it's so true to who he is. His heart is big, his ego is big as well, and he owns both of that. - That's wonderful. Now we've talked about some of the gentlemen that have been photographed by you. Talk to me about the ladies because you've got some fantastic images that you've captured there as well. And as I'm sort of looking through them, I mean, there's one with Catherine Ponce de Nidez. And she's got this sort of flowing dress on which forms a rose. It's just brilliant. - Yeah, so, you know, Catherine was the first woman to be crowned Miss Earth South Africa. And she spends most of her time now as a social justice activist. And her symbol is that of light and hope. And she said a quote, which I think is so amazing. She said, "We must never forget "that by lighting the candle of another, "we take nothing away from our own light.

"We only create more of it." - Wow. Okay, who else of the ladies was good for you? Because I mean, you can go through this book and there must be some that stand out for you specifically. - Minidlamini is one of those ladies. You know, we speak a lot about dreams in the book, but what about setbacks? And what I've discovered and what I've learned even through this project is that all dreams come with setbacks. For this project, we never encountered on having a pandemic. And yet here we are today with a book to celebrate. And Minidlamini's see setbacks in a similar way. She sees setbacks as never a bad experience, but instead as another one of life's lessons to be embraced. Sort of like surrendering to the rain. And her image is her in a surrendered pose while there's rain falls down on her. And you know, when her brother died, it rained. And then when her daughter was born, it rained. So she honors life's moments by naming her daughter Netta, which translates to rain. And for the reader who looks at this image, I would say, look at it really carefully because you'll notice that there's not only rain in the photo, there's also rocks. And it represents the fact that, you know, rain can be falling and, you know, it can be pelting down and it can feel like rocks.

And it can also feel like rain too. And we just have to embrace the fact that this is happening in life. Feel the moment, know that it is an experience and one that we, if we are brave enough, experience fully. - That's amazing. Now talking about sort of, you know, things that are amazing and exciting, I've been talking about your book and as luck would have it, the career arrived while I've been talking to you. And I've just been told that your book is on the kitchen table. So I'm now torn between wanting to talk to you a lot more and saying, thanks for the chat, I'm gonna go read the book now. So I'm gonna err on the side of professionalism and I'm gonna say, when we come back, we'll be wrapping it up with Mark Gregory and chatting about that incredible book of his. This is what's involved. And we're back with my special guest, Mark Gregory, talking about his amazing project that he's done. It's a book called "In Good Company", written in with Jenny Chisel, "Forward" is by Tulli Maronsela. That is a lady I would love to spend some time chatting to. You haven't managed to do that yet. But now you've done this and it's completed and it's out there and it's a labor of love. Two things.

Number one, is there an exhibition of these things? If we don't get the book, can we go and see it somewhere? - Yes, we wanted to make sure that this collection would be available to all South Africans. And so there is currently an exhibition that's taking place in Santon City in the mall. And that is adjacent to the Diamond Walk in the mall. You really can't miss it. We feature 44 art pieces, larger than life. And it's quite an experience to go there and see it. - What we've added in is two very exciting components. The one is obviously the augmented reality. So when you put your phone in front of it, you see these images come to life in such a grand way. And the second is an audio guide. And that audio guide has been narrated by Taryn Louch. And she's just, her exquisite voice just really brings the stories to life in such a beautiful way so that anybody that's there, they just scan the barcode. It's all there on the side of the panels where the art is, and they can enjoy it. - I think that's wonderful. Now I'm going to say to you, you've now completed this project, Mark Gregory. What is next for you? You must be, you struck me as the kind of person who would, you know, you'd never be able to sit back on your laurels and rest.

So what is next? Where are you going next? - So I'm currently working with leaders and businesses and helping them bring more creativity in the way that they work, in the way that they live. What I've really discovered along this journey is that we've been South Africans through a really tough time of disruption. A lot of people have lost a sense of themselves, lost a sense of their greatness, and especially lost a sense of their creativity. And creativity inspires greatness. So not only will this book inspire and reignite, you know, the sense of creativity for the readers and bring that optimism back in their lives so that they can fulfill their dreams, I'm also personally working with brands, with leaders, with businesses, and doing a series of talks that helps them to bring more creativity into their lives and work. So again, this sounds like, I mean, you just sound like a man who's found their passion and purpose, and you are living it each and every day. Now, for those people that are listening, and I include myself in it, where we sort of might feel we're not terribly creative. And, you know, I remember often one of my biggest passions, biggest thing I've ever wanted to learn to do is draw.

And I haven't ever managed to get past stick figures. How would we go about kind of becoming more creative? Is there anything that you would recommend? - Yes. So if we look at the word creative, you'll see the word create forms part of that. And in order to be creative, we need to start creating. And I would encourage you especially, David, if you love to do drawing is to, in the next day, draw something. Just do one thing that is inspired by your passion. And if you do that every day and just do a little bit of drawing, you will build up that creativity. It's like a muscle. And that muscle, when it's grown, will become something where you can actually in the end say, hey, I actually feel like a creative person. - Wonderful. What a quite good piece of advice. My problem is I'm my own worst critic. So, you know, the first time a stick figure comes out, I'm like, that's it, never drawing again. I'm useless at drawing. So I'm going to try. I'm going to try with the stick figures and see where we can go with them. It just about wraps it up for us with our chat. Mark Gregory, the book is called "In Good Company." The proceeds are going to "Reach for a Dream." It's available, where? Most good bookshops?

- All good bookshops. We'll have it in stores, exclusive books, take a lot. And if you want to buy it online, reachforadream.org.za. That's where a lot of people are purchasing it right now. - Fantastic. And if people want to find out a little bit more about you personally, where do they go? - They can visit the website. So the website for this project is www.ingoodcompany.live. So just note that that in, but it's not a, it's not a CRT, it's a .live, ingoodcompany.live. They will, they can get to see more of the artwork. They can experience some of the stories we are posting, some behind the scenes footage. And I can also be contacted through their website. - Wonderful stuff, wraps it up for this edition of "What's Involved?" Well, Gregory, thank you so much for taking the time out, having a chat to us. The book is a masterpiece. You can be so, so proud of it. And well, I hope to be chatting to you again one day with some more projects. - Thank you, David. And I can't wait to see some of your line drawings. - Don't put me on the spot now. - I've done it, I've done it deliberately. (laughing) - No, you see, now it's going out on air. I can't back down on this one. - Exactly. - Anyway, there we go.

That was my special guest, Mark Gregory. Wraps it up for this edition of "What's Involved?" To each and every one of you, take care, look after yourselves, and thank you for listening.