Tim Keys — Founder of The Sales Institute, Entrepreneur, Selling In Times Of Crisis

And it is yet another edition of what's involved and I thought, you know, why not let's let's he is our resident sales guru So, uh, let's drag him in and have a bit of a chat to him Who is he and who am I talking about? I'm talking about Tim Keys the CEO of the sales Institute. Hello, Tim How you David good to be back with you again Yeah, different though. Hey, normally out. Normally I drag you into into a radio station now We're doing this remotely You know Reminds me of one of those cartoons. I've seen it, you know, if we're not if we're not remotely working Are we what if we're not working remotely? Are we even remotely working? I'm assuming I'm missing my drinks. I haven't been to Joby for a couple of months now and I'm starting to have withdrawal symptoms Yeah, well listen, I mean I literally also had been out of the house in the last little while So yeah, you know, and I mean everybody says well, that's okay for you You're a bit of a recluse anyway But I think it's it's it's just the idea of the freedom that has been taken away that that begs me but enough of that You are the CEO of the sales Institute. We've had you we've had you on on a a couple of times before And often we've talked selling we used to speak about the new way of selling et cetera And then that covered 19 came along and just well blew everything up so What I wanted to find out is is, you know

Can we still sell in 2020 and beyond? Well, well, this is the interesting thing about this, you know, you have to watch excuse the pun You need to watch the waves coming in and all of the stuff that we spoke about even six months ago When I was last on your show Or a couple of months ago, you know, a lot of that has changed in the space of a very very short period So part of it is because of covered which is certainly accelerated a lot of trends that already started last year They were starting to come through and some really interesting ideas about how customers want to work With us and and you know how they research what we selling them and things like that But covid's definitely accelerated it and now because of especially social distancing the way we sell has to change So the answer is yes, we can still sell But the selling has moved a lot from face to face to remote selling And I think that's the important thing skill that people need to learn Okay remote selling but now if I think if I think about it now working from home Okay, um, it's really difficult and I'm talking about just from my side now even In terms of trying to connect with people set up interviews, etc. Etc. It's quite difficult to get hold of somebody important You know people are using a call of call identification these days Emails and and that's the way I mainly work emails just seem to be well. Yeah, they're not really working either We spoke a bit about the your customers or potential customers You know, they want to do their research online But for me, it just feels at this time it feels a bit weird. I don't know if you feel like that Well, they're two things that are happening The one is it seems heartless to sell right now, you know, it almost seems like my goodness We're going through so much now you want to sell me something and so if you had to learn a specific skill to me It's empathy the the conversations have to start with how do I help somebody else solve a problem?

And what I found recently is I'm having to do or I'm willing to do a lot more favors Than I've done before so give you an example, you know, I'm big big LinkedIn fan, which we have to talk about later but I'm contacting a lot of people and offering to help them use LinkedIn as a sales tool and My offer to them is, you know, let me help you with writing you know the the introduction and your profile and let me help you with that because you know That's an important part of selling and so before I used to charge for that now I'm saying let me help you solve that problem first and then they coming back to me and saying okay, Tim How can you help me now? And that's where I am by giving value. I'm earning the right to do business So I've had to move from selling to earning the right to do business And I think that's a big shift when it comes to selling post covert You can't be a salesperson anymore, you know, I posted something on my LinkedIn the other day It's got quite a reaction where I said if I was a salesperson and I'm on LinkedIn Isn't it stupid to put there that you're an account manager or that you're a new business development guy? Because the minute somebody puts that on there and I see that on the profile and they want to talk to me I'm expecting them to send me a spam You know within five minutes that I'm gonna get an email or they're gonna contact me on LinkedIn and try and sell me something So I think empathy is the key to this Okay makes it makes sense and it's one of the things definitely that we're gonna need to talk about is Because there's a couple of things that I've seen that you're offering to help people with You you've got the LinkedIn one that you're doing video as well though Is something that I believe I believe we should speak about I mean even now as we speak We've both done ourselves a favor and we're not doing this as a video recording But but we are we are remotely doing this. I mean this entire thing is being recorded over Skype at the moment You know and and I don't know, you know, somebody was saying to me the other day But you know, what's gonna happen, you know, you're gonna get back to the radio station gonna do this business wise what's happening and and The simple answer that I've been given to people is I don't know You know and now of course we're at this stage during this this pandemic where I guess we're hearing from people All over the place and and they've got so many differing opinions I mean from the fact that they're just waiting for the vaccine so that they can inject us with tracking chips to This this this virus is a lot is a lot worse than a lot of people are saying to other people saying well Let's just go out and get it to which I reply. That's fine. And so you've actually got some underlying comorbidities Then it's not then it's not so much fun. You know what I'm saying?

And it has it's gone. It's gone for me from from from sort of You know knowing you know, it's like the old days, you know You know somebody you know somebody you know somebody who knows somebody who's second cousin on their mother's side had covered Suddenly, it's it's it's it's hitting a lot closer to home. I think for a lot of us I mean, I know somebody who's now currently in in hospital in critical condition with with the with the coronavirus Yeah There's something I wanted to add here. I went on I went to a virtual conference or on a virtual conference during the week and Brian Murren who's a really good brain science guy he made a comment on this conference that it takes 60 days for people to learn a new habit and He said in most countries we've been in lockdown for 60 days And it's something I hadn't considered in that if people have got used to this way of communicating You know, I have to tell you I'm enjoying this, you know to give you an example this morning I was at a sales conference virtually. I then trained for two hours and I coached two people for another hour Now I'm talking to you. And so because I'm working remotely, I'm getting so much more done From my training that I'm doing I'm doing a lot more remote learning where I do two-hour sessions I do coaching I give people a lot of homework and I'm finding that the The the quality of the learning has improved significantly and I think customers have got used to this working Remotely thing and so I don't think we're going to lose the using the Skype and the teams and the zooms and things to have Conversations I think customers have got used to that and so I don't think there will be a new normal I think that people have got used to using technology and It's not something that we're gonna go back from I think we'll need to continue using technology in the future in ourselves processes Well, I think I think there you may have you may have a point. I mean, I remember us sitting discussing Last year at the beginning of this year about certain things that we wanted to change in our respective businesses One of those was more of this this remote Remote learning the coaching the other thing we spoke about a whole lot was was video getting stuff online doing online learning and you know while we were chatting about it, it seemed fairly far-fetched and quite out there and quite Revolutionary and then covered 19. So yeah, there we are We've all been been forced to learn my special guest by the way, my special guest is Tim keys He is the CEO of the sales Institute Joining us once again on what's involved just to find out about can we still sell in 2020 and beyond when we come back We'll check some more with Tim keys And we're back it is what's involved my special guest Tim key CEO of the sales Institute So Tim we've spoken about this and you said to me that you're enjoying what you're doing right now and working remotely Etc, etc. I Must be honest. I am as well. I miss a radio station. I miss being in a radio station In that sense, I feel disconnected from from the rest of the gang at the radio station But in terms of business look, I think everybody's everybody's battling and this this idea of how can I help you?

I think that has very big legs At at the moment and and just you know trying to get out there and see what you can do if you can help and then Maybe I don't know. How do you look at it? Do you look at business that comes from there? There's like a happy coincidence there Okay, so so let's take a couple of steps back here The I mentioned to you that this trend started before covert So a lot a lot of the research indicated that people were wanting to do a lot more research online than ever before and That when they were talking to sales, they wanted you to deliver far more value than you did before So those trends were starting to happen. And as I said covert has accelerated it. So the people who do The job well of delivering value and talk to my needs They will be successful and I become intolerant of what I call needy sales people People are trying to sell me something not help me the big thing though and and we can talk about the tech Knowledge is a supporters But the big thing is that even post without covert Customers wanted to see what you could do and they wanted to know how to make a decision without having to call you first So here's the scary number out of the entire sales cycle When when I started training and and I remember you and I had this discussion people used to typically engage with a sales organization round about halfway through when they wanted a quote and We put that at about 50% of the sales cycle The number now is as high as 83% Where customers will do all of their due diligence. They'll do all of their work. They'll go online They'll evaluate products and they will only come to you as a salesperson when they want price and availability of stock That's how scary this has become and how little they actually trust salespeople so if you are not going to position yourself digitally as someone who has empathy and who has a Reputation and who can help them solve the problems and know stuff or can deliver stuff They aren't gonna want to talk to you and now they're doing a lot more research online So suddenly LinkedIn and video and all of the things that we've been talking about become incredibly important as part of lead generation and That's without talking about the role of things like teams and Skype and all of that for closing the sale So just purely for lead generation We need to look at how technology works and we also need to have a look at what role do we play?

And how easy are we making it for our customers to make decisions? so can they research us online and that is where I think that LinkedIn and video has become the net of I mean Linking's always been huge, but those two elements have become the next big thing of lead generation. Mm-hmm. Okay Yeah, I must say and often and you know this I have to I have to swap hats because I wear a couple of hats And I'm I'm just thinking in terms of the other business Which is outside of the business is what's digital? You know, we've also we've done a lot of that where we're in the middle of this video stuff and doing these explainer videos Etc. Etc. We can get into that a little bit It's but it is it's a very very steep learning curve And you know, there's there's a lot of stuff You know as a as a company if you don't know how to do some of this stuff It's perhaps then that you need to speak to businesses like mine businesses like yours because otherwise you're gonna get left behind Agreed agreed and I proved this, you know, there's there's somebody here houses for a story I'm sitting at a company. I work with an IT firm in Cape Town where I outsourced to them and one of the sales people is from Zambia and so her Her accent isn't particularly strong. So, you know, I mean she's got a Zambian accent So I'm sure people in Zambia don't have a problem. But in South Africa She was struggling to get people to talk to her on the phone because they didn't quite hear what she was saying She switched to using LinkedIn where I taught her to she first built a really good profile then she looked for the person that she wanted to speak to and then she sent them an invite and then started engaging with them on LinkedIn and there are two lead generators in this business right now She is outperforming the other lead generator by about five to one and she is doing all of it digitally and what she has done and is it's her profile on LinkedIn and then we did a video of her where she There are a whole lot of new features in LinkedIn that allow you to talk about your business and to showcase your business and to You know to write really good articles and things so we've been working on that and I recorded her Talking about what she does and how she helps people and she did that and she had time to do a little more slowly So it was easier to understand she connected on LinkedIn and then the company here Using and a lot of the work. I know you helped them as well is creating the videos Where people then go on to a page and that the particular solution that they offer They can go through a series of videos. So part of it is office 365 so they can see how that works they do services management, so they see how that works they do governance and there are videos on each of these topics and What we finding here is that they're getting more meetings and they're closing more sales because we've spent more time building out the resources and You know that is it's partly a skill as in learning how to do this Partly learning how to use technology and then the third one and there's no hidden agenda here the power of a personal video and an explainer video and things like that people just love the moving pictures and the storytelling of it and I'm finding that that is the big shift is the using LinkedIn to make the connection giving them time to watch a Couple of videos to see what I do and then making a connection with them and having a chat and it's proving very successful here Yeah, well, I mean we've we've as you know we've redesigned our entire what's digital website and we've included a lot of stuff like that then and it's based on stuff that that you And I have spoken about and I must tell you the response that we've had so far is is absolutely brilliant And yeah, we need to be we do as a business need to be more active on LinkedIn So we're going to be talking we're going to be talking to you about that But talking about interesting things that people are doing with their technology at the moment one of the things that I've noticed and and I don't know if you can if you can speak to that but One of the companies that we've dealt with before Have actually approached me a couple of them now subsequent to this one But I'm doing work with one at the moment in terms of doing a podcast for their brand So they come up with with what the kind of content is and we research it. We discuss what we're going to do I actually set up all the the the the podcasting the technical side of it for them and We're starting to do a series of podcasts for for these particular brands That also seems to be growing massively at the moment. Have you had much experience with that?

100% you know video podcast they they both have a place where I think the the missing link is though is That and seriously, I hope I don't offend any marketers here. I'm a sales guy not a marketing guy. So a lot of the video podcasting Traditional methods that we've used have been for marketing purposes To me the secret source is inviting people privately and personally to go and interact with those podcasts So the few that we've done I have them all set up somewhere and when I connect with someone I say Why don't you listen to this podcast? You know when we done here? I'm gonna send it to a couple of the people I've been dealing with Over the last little while about this particular topic and say, you know Why don't you you listen to this the same as the sales conference? I was part of this morning. Let them watch that video because each time I'm adding value So I think the secret to me is It needs to be part of a personal invitation. So You know just like you've built an audience over the years and people have become quite loyal to your podcast I know I know I look forward to them every Monday It's the same thing there is that literally inviting people and I don't know if we can rely purely on marketing anymore I think marketing is important but this one-to-one selling by giving them access to these kind of interesting Pieces of information whether it's a podcast or video any other, you know, it could still be an article for example But I think it's that one-to-one invitation. It doesn't take away the responsibility for the salesperson They still have to make contact and have the conversation So we are turning to Tim keys from the sales Institute my special guest on what's involved when we come back We'll chat a little bit more about this and the kind of things we need to start doing because one of the things Tim talks About is some superpowers that you need to develop. So we're going to talk about superpowers a little later on when we come back

We're back it is what's involved and my special guest CEO of the sales Institute. It's Tim keys before the break Tim We mentioned the superpowers that you feel we need to develop. Can we talk a bit about that? Okay, so to me there are five superpowers that You need to to be able to master in order to be successful when you're selling specifically through technology So let me just take you through the five and then you can tell me which one you want to discuss The first one is very clear messaging you need to be able to tell people what you can do for them and how you can help them what the value is and it needs To be in one sentence and it needs to be incredibly clear. It can't get lost in the clutter Second one surprise surprise get active on LinkedIn You should be spending in my mind an hour a day on LinkedIn if you're in sales and a lot of people say it's a Soft way of selling then you're not using it in the way I use it LinkedIn is a very very active sales tool If you use it properly So that to me is a major superpower is is how you use LinkedIn as a social selling tool? Third one you need to break through the shyness and you know, whether it's a podcast or a video I remember the first time I did a show with you how nervous I was and how different My experience is now It's just because you know, you forced me and I give you credit for this You forced me in front of a microphone and a camera so I'm now a lot more comfortable with this stuff So that's been a good thing for me. And I think that's a major skill, you know You need to be comfortable in front of a camera and a video and I know that's something you do a lot of work on In helping people do that The fourth one is how do you run interact online interactive online meetings?

So how do you use them and Skype and teams properly? And then the last one is clarity is everything your message needs to people need to go on a journey You need to help them make sense of this world and help them make a good decision Those are the five superpowers that I'm recommending

You mentioned they're getting active on LinkedIn you've mentioned breaking through shyness starting to use video Those are two of the things that you're actually helping people with at the moment. Am I correct? Yeah, so my process is The the first thing you need to do is I'll help you figure out your sales message and that sounds very simple But here's the issue whenever I do training nowadays, I tell a story So, you know you and I've spoken about the hero story a lot But essentially the way you tell a story is you have a hero who has a problem That and any stories like this. My favorite one is Star Trek Or Star Wars, you know, you have a hero. He's very unhappy as a serious problem get kicked out of his home You know doesn't know who his dad is etc. Eventually. He meets Yoda who teaches him his powers He's got this major enemy, which is the Empire Yoda helps him learn these new powers. So Yoda guides him he explodes forth You know destroys the Empire and he becomes the hero and lives happily ever after now A lot of companies make this mistake. They reckon they the hero and and your company's not the hero your customer is So I help sales people do what? The salesperson in my world is the hero So I helped you as the sales Institute get your messaging correct so that you can talk to customers I help you on LinkedIn get access engage sell more to Or identify new opportunities and connect with them. I help you use the the online tools Interactive tools in order to run great meetings. So everything that I do is I'm only guiding you you the hero You have to like my favorite movie is The Matrix. You need to choose the right pull, you know, it's all up to you I will guide you so that's what I do on LinkedIn is number one. I help you build a profile because that's central to To LinkedIn you've got to tell a really good story and engage people on With the profile and I mean you and I have done a lot of work on that on how to do a great profile Once we do that, then you connect with people. So LinkedIn is brilliant You know, I don't know why people pay money for these databases, you know They'd give them all this information because LinkedIn's got a lot of it where I can search like in my case I searched for key account managers in Cape Town a month ago and 850 popped up on the list. So I searched for the people I want to speak to Then once you understand who you want to talk to you engage with them So you send them a message you connect you start talking to them You don't sell them stuff because that's the problem. We want to sell immediately All you do is start understanding their world and I use LinkedIn like whatsapp I literally leave messages and I don't know if you know this LinkedIn has introduced a new feature where you can leave voice notes So I literally now leave voice notes for people I've connected with on LinkedIn and I say I'd love your profile I'd love to talk to you about how you do this. Tell me how do you handle this?

What are you doing right now and I'll ask a series of questions and they respond Then the next step would be so how do we take that that engagement and start talking about building the relationship? And then the key to this once you trust me, I then say why don't we chat? So, you know, why don't we go on to a teams call because I use teams Why don't we go on a team score and have a chat and in most cases I'm doing it remotely now I'm still a little bit scared to go to too many offices. So most cases I'm having conversations on teams And and that's what I teach customers how to do. How do you move through that journey? Creating the real identifying the customer building out the relationship and then moving to the next step, which is the meeting All right, so basically this is about your your message. So you've got to identify What problem what is the problem that you solve? What is the solution and the result of implementing that solution? And and and that's that's the kind of thing that That we talk about now LinkedIn It both fascinates and terrifies me. I'm on it People look at my profile. I think my profile probably still sucks. I haven't done a whole lot of work there Indeed as what's digital? We haven't done a whole lot of work there and we need to we definitely need to and I Really? You know, I admire what you're doing on on LinkedIn and everything when you talk LinkedIn though You said we can leave voice messages, etc. Etc. One of the things I was wondering Do you make use of the sales navigator because a lot of people go well LinkedIn is pretty pointless unless you use the sales navigator Not at all. You can make full use of the free product I'll tell you where you want to use sales navigator though. The the search capacity of sales navigator is so granular So effectively it becomes a a customer database or prospect database with the navigator You get to drill right down and then you can store that information So let's say I want to work with 20 key account managers in Cape Town I can store that in a specific area and then what what LinkedIn does it goes and finds me information about those people and Then when I talk to them, I can refer to that info So that's where navigate is very good. It also allows me to send direct messages But be aware navigate if you pay per year is about 700 ran a month if you pay per month That's about a thousand nine hundred and something ran a month. So it is a very good product. And if you can afford it I would recommend it You know how I use it. I switch it on and off so every three or four months I switch it back on use it for a month switch it off again So whenever I need to do prospecting I switch navigate to run But you can do most or a lot of the activities with the free product So it does have a search engine. It's not quite as good, but you can get around it with something called billion searches So if you know how to use ands and nots and ways of searching there are ways around it And then all the rest the making the contact and all of the stuff that I described to you earlier can be done with the Free product so it is recommended, but not necessary. That makes sense. It does Thank you. My special guest Tim Keyes today We're talking about selling in 2020 and beyond because I mean everybody businesses are starting up all over the place And and people need to start making money And one of the things obviously that I recommend is that we we buy local we look local we train local so I'm a big a big fan of it when we come back, we're gonna wrap up with Tim and Find a little bit more about you said there were two products We're gonna find out a bit more about the video one as well It is what's involved when we come back chatting with Tim Keyes of the Sales Institute And we're back Tim right to wrap it up Let's talk a little bit about the video thing as well because you also you're also offering people and when I say this I'm kind of maybe putting you on the spot that I'm assuming that we're going to make these Documents available to anybody who's listening either To the radio broadcast of this or to the podcast of this. So you're gonna make it available to them as well Yes, sir. I'm very happy to share the notes of what we've just discussed It's based on a sales conference that that I've just done So I'm happy to share that and then I've got two documents that I've built In fact, we've done one of them together. The first one is how do you build a LinkedIn profile?

And you need and mine uses that story method On how you use the story method to build the profile if you go to my profile Tim Keys You'll see that story method at work. I've applied it there so I've got a very good document that takes you step by step on how to build your profile and Then the second one which is something we both passionate about is how do you sell using video? Because it's very specific. It's not enough just to create a video. There's a very specific method that you use video to sell Yeah, and I've got a document on that. Yeah All right. Fantastic stuff. So if somebody wants to get hold of that, what's the best way to do that? Do they just look for Tim Keys on LinkedIn or can they mail you? Both so Tim Keys LinkedIn. They can go to Sales Institute on the Facebook page Otherwise, my email is Tim Kay at sales Institute dot co dot z a Okay, Tim Kay at sales Institute dot co dot z a Tim just before we We wrap it up now I'm going to ask if you've maybe got a crystal ball and how do you see things going for the rest of of 2020 I mean between you and I because we do it. We do a fair amount of training together And you know, I do a lot of the sales training and sort of the counting side of the world for you We had we had some big stuff planned just before Before the show covered 19 that all went away. How do you see the rest of the year happening?

It would be nice to get out and work again, don't you think? Well being in Cape Town, apparently we're about to hit our peak So we might be able to get out a little bit earlier, but I do think that The way training is working. I think a lot of it's going to become remote like this, you know I've really enjoyed remote learning I've just found that I can spend more time with my students because it takes a month to get through the program now and I spend two hours a week plus a coaching session plus I give you a lot of and what I found is they'm sending the homework the depth of learning is so much better So I think that a lot of people are going to stay with online learning Learning and remote learning. I think a few of our customers will let us back to work with their sales team But not a lot of them. So I see that from a training perspective. There'll be a hybrid model some online learning and a little bit of instructor lead and a little bit of coaching But I think there'll be a lot more online and I think selling is going to be the same I don't see companies and and you know I don't know what the story is with everybody getting a vaccine But I think people are going to be a little nervous about letting you into their business And so I think a lot of the sales is going to be remote like this I think we're going to have to learn this technology and there are things you can do to use it successfully Okay, because I mean, you know this is one of the things that that we talk about and I love for for my listeners as well to hear that because It makes sense and also, you know with what we've gone through there's not as much Cash, there's not as much liquidity as there was and with online and remote learning side of it Specifically in terms of your sales team or whether you're in a CEO or somebody that wants to learn this stuff You know, it's it works out cheaper surely because now now we know we're not we're not charging the client for the for the travel For the accommodation for this for that the next thing so surely we can make it more affordable then Exactly. It is more affordable. The other thing is you're not out of the office in two days like normal So, you know normal our thing is we say open wide and we pour information down your throat for two days And you know people in are overwhelmed after the two days. So here you're looking at two hours a week and Then a half an hour coaching session so it makes it a lot easier for people to then apply it and then have the coaching session where we can make changes and And help them and then run the next session. So I tell you I'm sold. I'm very happy to run it this way I'll still do groups because I miss the classroom, but I really enjoy this remote learning model. I Think I mean we we experienced that actually before before covered and I've experienced it personally with the other side of the business As people were starting to complain about the staff being out of office for two days or however However, it worked. I mean some of the trainings went up to two to four days in length But they were they were already going now. Listen, this is this is not good. These guys have got KPRs they have to reach they're going to do this. They got to do that. We can't do it And we were really starting to negotiate to do half day sessions and do more half day sessions, etc. Etc This may well be this may well be the solution as you say Yeah, and the best thing is they have to do the homework That's the part I love the most because the things that I picked up like this morning I marked a script and I picked up he hadn't he hadn't worked out the business case thing So I said to him I need to talk to you and explain this to you again Now I would never have picked that up in normal in a normal instructor lead In normal instructor ledge, you know, you're working with a group of 10 12 people whereas here I immediately picked it up and I could I could drill down to his individual requirements So I really do think it's a I'm actually glad that I was forced to go down this road It's been a great addition to the business I Think one of those things and this is also it's one of our I think we can use it as a closing point for me What is most important is we've always said?

With both of our businesses is that we'll go into a place. We'll do the intervention whatever that that intervention looks like So we'll spend a couple of days with them Everybody is you know, they love it. It's energized. It's that training environment. We walk out We feel great. We've thrown tons of information at people And then we literally, you know, you don't see people after that people get busy people who've got laughs And and one of the things we always used to do is say listen, please connect with us We're happy to help you wherever we can after this process But a lot of times people going well after it's done. That's two days. Yeah I've got my certificate arm off and they never get to benefit from that learning and we don't get to track with any of that learning has in fact stuck and I think this is a very good way of doing it agreed and then the final thing here is Even if you are experienced in selling and I want to stress this I'm working with a guy who's been selling for 20 years This using technology is struggling to adapt. So even if you have been selling for a long time And and you know, you don't need our traditional professional selling or one of the other courses This one that we're looking at is how do you sell using technology and specifically?

The video and the LinkedIn and all of those things I've described. I think anybody can benefit from this These are not skills you translate straight from one to one. Can I give you a very simple example? Do we have time? Yes, we do one example So so when you do a zoom call or a team's call any idea why it's so exhausting Trick question, you know why it's so tiring And this is based on research because because we're messing with new technology It's part of it. The answer is I can't see your hands So when I'm in face to face traditionally from a typical how human beings work The first thing I do is I check your hands are empty that I'm not in danger It's a very primal response to am I safe when we do linked or when we do calls I can't see your hands and I'm spending all the time trying to process your face to try and figure out if I can trust You're not and this has been proved through eye-patterning that people are trying to look down to see the rest of the body So here's a piece of advice we put in the course of no one knows Just go a little bit further back from your webcam and let people see your hands and suddenly you'll find that you'll get a better response from the person you're talking to now these technology things that people don't know no matter how long you've Sold for this is new stuff. So I really would encourage you to Investigate some of the new technologies available to you as a salesperson Think that's wonderful. And what a great story to end on because I'm thinking about myself now I've obviously been you know doing the radio stuff for 70 years I've learned to be quite expressive with my voice But I do use my hands a lot and and when I'm in a training room a training environment I'm very active and and yeah now you can now you kind of you've got to remember so many things, you know Are you are you facing your microphone? Are you looking into the webcam?

You know, you don't have somebody that's coming behind you and and meeting bombing you and all of those things fantastic stuff Tim Again, if somebody wants to get hold of you to find out more about this. It's Tim Kay at Sales Institute S-a-l-e-s Institute. That's one word Tim Kay at sales Institute dot co dot z a Otherwise if you want to get hold of me, I can put you in touch with Tim. That's David at what's involved W-a-t-t-s-i-n-v-o-l-v-e-d David at what's involved at co dot z a Tim thank you so much for taking the time out having a chat to me as always It's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege. We wish you all the best going forward Thank you very much. It's great to be with you again There we go. That was Tim keys the CEO and founder of the Sales Institute yet another edition of what's involved been wrapped up Right now. I'm David Watts before I go one more thing. Thank you for listening